[Jeff Pelehac]

A family friend gave me this gun a long time ago. He claimed he got it during WWII while in Italy doing a tour. I guess they were going through villages and he came across some stuff and this happened to be there. It may or may not be Italian but it looks hand made because a lot of the small details are imperfect. If anyone knows anything about it please post. Local gun shops here have no idea but have wanted to buy it on more than one occasion.


What is something like this worth? History behind it?

[Eric Holt]

That's a strange gun given that it has one barrel and two triggers. It appears to be a breech-loader holding one round, so I can't imagine what the second trigger is for. What in the world does that second trigger do? Can you tell?

[Thomas Watt]

Just an impression... while it bears a lot of nice handwork, I notice it's bearing a patent number (DR Pat. 79855) as well as several maker's marks... I haven't access to a specialized gun catalog, but I'm willing to bet there's a listing (and likely some valuation guidance) for it.

[Eric Holt]

That's a strange gun given that it has one barrel and two triggers. It appears to be a breech-loader holding one round, so I can't imagine what the second trigger is for. Is there another barrel on the other side that I can't see? What in the world does that second trigger do? Can you tell? If I had to guess, I'd guess it to be a hunting gun if it's WWII-era. But I really don't know...

[Jeff Pelehac]

One seems to cock it and the other fires. Someone said a possible dualing gun? or target gun

[Thomas Watt]

[Patrick Kelly]

Off hand I'd say it's a single-shot pistol designed for Schutzen-style competition, something that was very popular in europe during the 19th century. That's just a guess based solely on the style of the firearm.

[Jean Thibodeau]

Guess: Some sort of target shooting gun, the double trigger could be a " set-trigger " first trigger takes care of most of the trigger pull and then one has a very light trigger pull on the second trigger. ( Extremely light trigger. )

Could be a high end target gun or a shooting gallery gun as a wild guess.

Any idea about the calibre ? Small in the .22 range or bigger in the .38 or .45 range ?

Sorry if I can't be more certain or helpful.

[Jeff Pelehac]

.22 is about the size of it. But i think the long rifle ones are too big for it. I never actually shot it. Just going off the guy that gave me the gun when i was a lot younger.

[John V. Uyeda]

Mr. Pelehac,
I have seen a very similar, but not identical, weapon described as a "parlor pistol." They were very popular in Europe, rarely seen in the US. Basically they were well made, highly ornate, highly accurate, but very low powered target pistols that could be used without disturbing one's neighbors. I don't think any were actually fired in anyone's parlors, but that is just my opinion.
You mentioned that .22 LR ammo was too big for it. If my too big you mean the length of the cartridge and not the diameter (caliber) of the bullet you may want to see if .22 short ammo will fit in it. Any decent gunsmith should be able to tell you if .22 short will work, although some might not think to try it.
I don't know how helpful that was. I believe the key to you mystery gun are the proof marks. If you can find someone who recognizes them you'll be set. I am for the most part ignorant on that subject. Good luck, no matter what you have a beautiful and interesting weapon.

[Bruno Giordan]

DR. pat. : not italian, patent in italian is brevetto.

I guess Deutsches Reich Patent, german patent.

[Steve L.]

"D.R. Pat." means "Deutsches Reichspatentamt"

It´s a so-called "Zimmerpistole" ("Room-", "Saloon"-pistol) - a gun for indoor-shooting. The calibers was shorter then .22LR.

[Steve Fabert]

If .22 Short cartidges are still too long, then the pistol was designed for Flobert caps, which are even shorter and contain no powder, just the priming compound. Although technically still a firearm, for all practical purposes it is a "pellet pistol" if it chambers only Flobert caps.

[Jeff Pelehac]

The guy the gun came from, said he could shoot .22 rounds out of it. He never said long or short but I know I have tried to get longs to fit and they do not. He said he didn't use it much but it was a fun suvenior to have after getting a bullet to the leg over there. He found it in Italy though and I am very impressed with the amount of information you guys have on such rare piece of arms.

Thank you so much so far!

[George Doby]

target/parlor pistol, double set triggers, .22 short or flobert caps, yes they were advertised for indoor shooting, proofs resemble germanbelgium (crown B) many manufacturers some quite small, i would say this is high end model.
try old west scounger for flobert caps and post pics on gunboards.com for better chance of ID.

[Bruno Giordan]

[Steve L.]

[Steve Grisetti]

[Steve L.]

That´s the same problem here in germany:

But here was the test with 15 - 17 year young semi-adults. They have to mark Berlin on an map (only border was visible). They have done a good job, and the position was mostly correct (at higher half and more to the east) - but it wasn´t a map of germany, but sweden!!! (And they don´t have to find it on an world map!!! In was only this land to see!!!)

But that was europeans!!! Germans!!! Living in germany (europe)!

But i guess, most of theUS-citizens know more about the backside of the moon (Not offensive meant!!!!!) then about europe!?

Back to topic:

I´m living in Munich, and here is the Deutsche Patentamt to find. I can make an phone call next week - maybe i can get more infos about D.R. pat. 73855. Gimme a few days....

[Chad Arnow]

Debates about scholastic achievements (or lack thereof) are off-topic for this thread and this website as a whole. Please keep things on-track.

Thank you.