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Alexi Goranov
myArmoury Alumni
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 Posted: Fri 20 Feb, 2004 8:21 am Post subject: Sharp "reenactment" swords |
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Howdy folks,
yesterday I asked about the czech republic arms+armor and the replys were very informative. One of the issues discussed was sharpening a "beater" sword, which is maid with reenactment in mind and is not intended for sharpening. Here is what
Ciran said about A+A swords:
| Quote: | | First off the bat these swords were never, ever designed as sharps. To sharpen it is to ruin it. Im a little weirded out by the fact theiron sold it as a sharp. The edges are flat, 2-3 mms. They are Beater swords, designed for a lot of daily use and never designed to be put on a wall. The fitnish isnt perfect in any way. There are pits in the pommels and guards and the finish is what I would describe as brushed steel rather then satin, but its definatly a working finish. The steel Is Kinda soft. At first this annoyed me but I got used to it and began to appriciate the fact it needs to be a bit softer to survive being bashed up all the time. A solid edge on edge strike would nick the edge but your not supposed to be staticcly blocking anyways (lol yea..not a closed book). I enquired about it at the time and the jist of it all is the hardness suits the intended useage. Which swings me back to the sharpness thing, The sword was never designed as a sharp and the steel is not tempered with edge retention in mind. Methinks again that sharpening the blade was a disservice and frankly I would have thaught nathan knew better. Like you can sharpen a Del tin and people did it before they knew any better but now we know more about edge geometry and we should know better themn blunts should remain blunts and sharps should remain sharp, The right tool for the job. To try to make a tool do something it was never designed to do is always gonna lead to dissapointment. |
Point well taken Ciran.
However, many folks have sharpen their Del Tin's pieces, and I have heard nothing but good things about 5143's cutting performance. I have not heard anything about its finish after sharpening, though. What features of Del Tins allows them to be successfully sharpened and retain good edge? The heat treatment? The blade geometry? Both? Anything else?
I am going here on the assumption that Del Tins perform equally well as compared to accurate historical replicas of similar weight and blade geometry. I know that Del Tin's blades are made to survive reenactment, and their blades are made to be tougher, so the distal tapper and weight distribution on the blade might be sckewed as compared to a historical replica.
My whole point is this: Can we go out and practice with a sharpened Del Tin (wielding the sword solo and cutting practice) and assume that exercissing with a good replica (of the same dimensions) will feel the same?
The reason for starting this thread is that after I get my Albion NG Baron, very high on my priority list is a sharp DT5143, and I want to know what to expect. From thinking this over, it appears that each sword should be treated individually with minimizing generalizations, but I cannot help but ask could 5143 be considered a fair representative of the XIIIa topology?
If not ATrim1415 will be on top of my priorities instead (even though its XIIa). I am sucker for XIIa.
Cheers,
Alexi
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Angus Trim
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| Posted: Fri 20 Feb, 2004 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Hi Alexi
First off, Del Tins are not really reenactment swords, but are "compromise" swords that can be used either way. They can be used as blunt training tools, but there are better ones out there. And they can be used as sharps, though there are in general, better options out there.
The DT5143 is one of the best DT's for use as a sword. Its "balance" is reasonable, and its mass is such that its not going to reach "terminal velocity" at the point of impact for anyone except someone with the strength of an "Arnauld", and martial ability of someone like Bob Charron.
Is it a reasonable facsimile of a "period" XIIIa? Don't know, you'd have to ask someone that has seen a large enough sample to give a better answer than I. Personally, I have specs on a few, but have never gotten up close and personal with any XIIIa antiques.
The blade thickness starts roughly .18 thick though, and there is no noticeable distal taper for roughly 2/3 the length.
{shrug}
I don't think I'd worry about it one way or the other. For the money spent it oughtta be more than good enough........
And it will cut just fine..........
Auld Dawg
swords are fun
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Geoff Wood
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| Posted: Fri 20 Feb, 2004 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Mr Goranov
I've not tried the Del Tin referred to so I can't comment on that, but since Angus was too modest to sing the praises of your quoted alternative, the ATrim 1415, please allow me to say that it is a well handling sword and a very good cutter.
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Ross Dean
Industry Professional
Location: Exmoor, England, UK Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sun 22 Feb, 2004 11:16 am Post subject: |
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Hi Alexi
I am new to this forum and so tread carefully. I am also part of a group who sells ATrim swords outside the US and so confess a commercial interest - I hope, however, what I have to say is straightforward and not biased.
I have found that sharpening swords that were not supplied as cutting swords is always counter-productive.
The sword-smith (hand-forged swords), or sword-maker (any other method of production you care to mention) must have cutting in mind when designing and producing a sword and that sword needs to have been well tested for cutting prior to commercial release. The dynamics of a good, safe, effective cutting sword are demanding on the sword-smith/sword-maker in design terms and on the sword itself in production terms; the design and the production quality control must be of the highest standard as far as safety and fitness-to-purpose (cutting and general swordsmanship) are concerned. A good end product is usually a delight to wield either while cutting or in solo practice - and its is an individual journey to find the sword that fits your personal body mechanics and your chosen fighting style.
In summary, if you want to cut, buy a sword made for cutting.
Regards,
Ross
Ross Dean
Countercut
Schola Gladiatoria
HEMAC
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Michael Pearce
Industry Professional
Location: Seattle, Wa. Joined: 21 Feb 2004
Posts: 365
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| Posted: Sun 22 Feb, 2004 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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I'll second Ross on this- DelTin's while worthy, are designed as a compromise so when sharpened their performance is, well, compromised. If you intend a sword to cut, buy the Atrim first.
Not trying to start trouble here- I have great respect for Fulvio's work.
Michael 'Tinker' Pearce
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Then one night, as my car was going backwards through a cornfield at 90mph, I had an epiphany...
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Cor Böhms
Location: The Hague,The Netherlands Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Tue 24 Feb, 2004 2:51 am Post subject: |
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I have put an historicaly correct "apple-seed edge" on my Del Tin 2132 and it cuts unbelievable good!
The edge is matching to the geometry of the blade. The standard edge on my 2132 was 1.5 mm.
Audacia magia est
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Cor Böhms
Location: The Hague,The Netherlands Joined: 04 Dec 2003
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Tue 24 Feb, 2004 4:47 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, the edge on my DT 2132 was not 1.5 mm but 0.5 mm!
Audacia magia est
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