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Eric Holt





Joined: 13 Nov 2006

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PostPosted: Sun 19 Nov, 2006 1:21 pm    Post subject: Advice on Buying First Sword         Reply with quote

Hi guys! I just found this site recently and this is my first post.

I was in the SCA when I was in college about 10 years ago. I always wanted to own a real sword back then but I couldn't afford one.

Now I'm getting interested in swords again, and I have the money these days to buy a good one. I've found some great information on this site but I need some advice on buying the right sword.

First of all, I need to mention my stature. I'm a 5'0" tall man weighing in at all of 100 lbs. I've always been at an obvious disadvantage in sword fighting and most standard swords are a bit unweildy for me. I'm fairly strong for my size and I have no trouble handling a bastard sword, but due to my size I need to fight very close in so I prefer shorter, faster blades. I like power as well as speed however, because I like to parry HARD to keep my opponent on the defensive while I rush in.

Obviously I don't need a real sword for real swordfighting, but I figure if I'm going to buy a real sword I may as well get one that fits my fighting style. I want a fairly sturdy sword but I don't plan to do anything beyond cutting light targets for fun.

Anyway, I'm trying to decide between a one-hander and a bastard sword, though I'll probably eventually get one of each. For a one-hander I prefer a blade no longer than 30", and for a bastard sword I'd like to stay close to 33" or less.

For the one-hander, a type XIV sword seems to fit the bill perfectly. Short and fast, but capable of powerful blows, and also serviceable for thrusting (which is important to me since thrusts have a longer range than cuts, and my reach is short). I'm gravitating towards the Angus Trim DD1404, though it's a bit more expensive than I'd like. What other swords should I consider in this type? Is the DD1404 worth the moderately-high price?

The bastard sword is more problematic, as most are bigger than I'd like. I'm leaning towards the Gen2 Black Prince since it's gotten such good reviews, but I'd prefer something slightly smaller. Any suggestions?

Also, when I was in the SCA a lot of guys had swords from Museum Replicas, and they always struck me as a bit shoddy so I'm wary of considering one for purchase. Are they any better these days?
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Gabriel Lebec
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Nov, 2006 2:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello Eric and welcome to myArmoury.com!

First off, I'm sure you've noticed the many excellent reviews including this one on the DD1404 ATrim (looks like well-considered choice for a first sword to me!).

Angus Trim is known for making thoroughly reliable performance-oriented swords at an affordable price. If you find the cost of the DD1404 "moderately-high," I would guess that whatever alternatives you are looking at are likely not up to quite the same level of quality (or even generally preferred levels of quality). Your budget is your budget, however, and you should make your own judgments as to what you are willing to spend; not everyone wants to jump into expensive custom swords or high-cost production swords such as those by Albion Swords and Arms & Armor.

Museum Replicas Limited (MRL) has reportedly improved their products and quality control over the years but they're still budget-oriented and not always 100% reliable, so it would be a good idea to check current reviews and try to inspect their wares in person if you are able.

If you haven't already, you may want to browse the list of manufacturers and smiths in the links page to see if you're missing anything; I cannot really help you with your main question, being a tall guy with expensive (and Japanese) tastes Wink Big Grin. You may want to consider the Del Tin lineup, which seem to be in your price range; this DT 2153 single-handed 15th century sword, for example, while substantially different from the DD1404 you mentioned, earned a favorable review from a knowledgeable enthusiast.

In any case, you've already mentioned some respectable options and I'm sure others at this site will have suggestions, so you're already in a great position to acquire a fine first sword. Good luck!

-GLL
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Ken Jay




Location: Portland Oregon
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Nov, 2006 2:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I can vouch for the DD1404. It's a great sword but more a cutter than a thruster. You might take a look at the AT1557 - http://www.christianfletcher.com/Site/AT-1557.html. It's much lighter than the 1404 and is a classic cut & thrust blade. If you can live with a cutting blade I'd also recommend the AT1211 - http://www.christianfletcher.com/Site/AT-1211.html. Both the 1557 and 1211 are about 12 oz lighter than the 1404.
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Grayson C.




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PostPosted: Sun 19 Nov, 2006 3:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gen2 makes high quality BEATERS, but are a mile off on realism.
Museum replicas is somewhat the opposite.
Both are cheap inexpensive swords and would be a well-placed $200, if you wish to pay that little.

Although, not in your prefered oakshott catagory, take a look at the albion reeve. It's gotten awesome reviews recently and is a fairly short sword with a lot of charactor behind it.



welcome to myArmoury!
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Eric Holt





Joined: 13 Nov 2006

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PostPosted: Sun 19 Nov, 2006 3:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies on the DD1404. It's within my price range, but I want something to swing around at light targets in the backyard, so my ideal would be a sub-$300 sword that won't cause me to wince too much should it get accidentally dropped or scraped against something hard. The price doesn't bother me too much but I want to be sure it's worth it, and it's sounding like a really good option.

I've seen a lot of favorable comments about the Del Tin swords but I can't find the prices listed on their web site, so I'm not sure what price range they are in. Can anyone recommend a good site to buy one from that has prices listed?

I've looked at the Albion Reeve, but although I could afford one if I really wanted it I don't want to spend that much on this first sword. Maybe later on. And actually, it's the Sovereign that I REALLY have my eye on Happy But a sword like that is something I'd want to behold and admire, not something to swing around in the back yard.

I've also considered the MRL German Falchion, but it's too far in the budget direction although I really like the looks of it and it got a good review. I guess the DD1404 is looking more and more like the best choice unless I find a Del Tin that I like better.

What about bastard swords? Are there any shorter-bladed ones out there? The MRL German Bastard sword has a great blade length for me but I don't like the hilt, and I'd like to avoid MRL. An arming sword with bit more hilt than average might make an alternative given my small hands, but I'd rather not have to resort to grasping the pommel and even those swords tend to run longer in blade than I'd like.
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Adam Simmonds




Location: Henley On Thames
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Nov, 2006 3:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

my 2 cents...

i reckon if you can afford it then it's worth while getting a decent and reliable sword of good quality. Anything less is just not really worth the bother except as decoration in my humble opinion. If you want a real sword then get a real sword, it will be worth the price paid. I reckon that it's not worth saving a couple hundred bucks if it means settling for a sword which cannot perform as a sword should. It's not just about looking the part - but also perfoming the task which matters.

cheers, adam
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Grayson C.




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PostPosted: Sun 19 Nov, 2006 3:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric Holt wrote:
Thanks for the replies on the DD1404. It's within my price range, but I want something to swing around at light targets in the backyard, so my ideal would be a sub-$300 sword that won't cause me to wince too much should it get accidentally dropped or scraped against something hard. The price doesn't bother me too much but I want to be sure it's worth it, and it's sounding like a really good option.

I've seen a lot of favorable comments about the Del Tin swords but I can't find the prices listed on their web site, so I'm not sure what price range they are in. Can anyone recommend a good site to buy one from that has prices listed?

I've looked at the Albion Reeve, but although I could afford one if I really wanted it I don't want to spend that much on this first sword. Maybe later on. And actually, it's the Sovereign that I REALLY have my eye on Happy But a sword like that is something I'd want to behold and admire, not something to swing around in the back yard.

I've also considered the MRL German Falchion, but it's too far in the budget direction although I really like the looks of it and it got a good review. I guess the DD1404 is looking more and more like the best choice unless I find a Del Tin that I like better.

What about bastard swords? Are there any shorter-bladed ones out there? The MRL German Bastard sword has a great blade length for me but I don't like the hilt, and I'd like to avoid MRL. An arming sword with bit more hilt than average might make an alternative given my small hands, but I'd rather not have to resort to grasping the pommel and even those swords tend to run longer in blade than I'd like.



Hmm....The reeve is one of Albions cheaper swords ($620, but a bit cheaper at Kultofathena, possibly).

I don't understand your aversion to MRL. Their quality has improved tenfold since their early days and I own two of their swords - The Sword of War and the Shrewsbury. The sword of war is overly flexible, and too large for your taste, but a is made solidly. The shrewsbury is an awesome buy (I got mine for around $85) and its qualiy at that pricerange is amazing. It is 40 in. so it might be too long for you? its grip can accomodate 2 hands easily though.

I think I've moved from museum replicas now since I stumbled upon myArmoury and ran headfirst into Albion Big Grin

But my point is, Museumreplicas is an excellent choise for a good $200 sword. You should check it out. Or try Gen2 if you prefer a solid beater with limited historical accuracy.

EDIT: Just remembered something else: Check out Paul Southern's site at

http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/index.html

He reviews sub $300 blades and might have reviewed something you like? if not, you can always email him and ask his impressions on different sword companies from those catagories.
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Eric Holt





Joined: 13 Nov 2006

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PostPosted: Sun 19 Nov, 2006 4:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, I guess I'm wanting too much for too little, but who doesn't. But it's time for reality to set in.

The Reeve is certainly at the low end of Albion's range, but if I'm going to spend >$600 then I'd rather save up and go for the $1000 range, since I'm really going for qualilty at that point and may as well get what I really want.

I'm going to have to get over my reluctance to spend more on this first sword I guess. I can see the advantage of paying more now versus buying something less expensive that will end up gathering dust in the back of the closet when I buy better swords later on.

I think I'm going to go with the DD1404, since it looks like something I'll always be happy to have and it doesn't look like I'm going to be satisfied with anything less expensive.
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Adam Simmonds




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PostPosted: Sun 19 Nov, 2006 4:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think you're making a good decision. A good sword will be a good sword for years, even centuries, to come. A crap sword on the other hand, bought in a moment of intoxication admiring a cheap and shiny blade - will either break after some use or will end up, as you have already prophesised - "gathering dust in the closet". It'll still look ok for those who don't recognise quality products, but that's about it.

Also, if you're going to be learning how to swing that thing, then a well made sword with a good balance and handling characteristics will help teach you how to handle a sword properly and prove an valuable learning resource.

cheers, adam
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John Cooksey




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PostPosted: Sun 19 Nov, 2006 5:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's one other possibility, that you mentioned earlier: you could get a Del Tin.
They are a good value for the money. I have owned a couple, and they have held up very well.
If I am not mistaken, Albion Armorers still has a couple of Del Tins left, from the days when they used to be a DT retailer.

According to their website:
"We no longer carry Del Tins through our Albion website, but we do still sell some Del Tin models through our subsidiary, Filmswords.com

We have a few Del Tin models remaining in stock, available for immediate shipping:
DT2121
DT2169
DT5130
DT5161"

Model 2121 is a pretty darned nice sword, for the money, though I think I personally would lean to a Gus Trim 1211 over it.
The customization options, through Christian Fletcher, for a 1211 raise some rather interesting possibilities. His custom "Irish Sword", based on the 1211, really rings my bell.
The 1211 seems to me to be, in either stock or custom configuration, a really handy, powerful sidearm.

I wish you all the best of luck in your sword search!

I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender.
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Eric Holt





Joined: 13 Nov 2006

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PostPosted: Sun 19 Nov, 2006 6:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

John Cooksey wrote:
Here's one other possibility, that you mentioned earlier: you could get a Del Tin.
They are a good value for the money. I have owned a couple, and they have held up very well.
If I am not mistaken, Albion Armorers still has a couple of Del Tins left, from the days when they used to be a DT retailer.

According to their website:
"We no longer carry Del Tins through our Albion website, but we do still sell some Del Tin models through our subsidiary, Filmswords.com

We have a few Del Tin models remaining in stock, available for immediate shipping:
DT2121
DT2169
DT5130
DT5161"

Model 2121 is a pretty darned nice sword, for the money, though I think I personally would lean to a Gus Trim 1211 over it.
The customization options, through Christian Fletcher, for a 1211 raise some rather interesting possibilities. His custom "Irish Sword", based on the 1211, really rings my bell.
The 1211 seems to me to be, in either stock or custom configuration, a really handy, powerful sidearm.

I wish you all the best of luck in your sword search!


That Del Tin 5130 sure is tempting. It's pretty similar to the DD1404--at least superficially--and I love its looks. I can't find any reviews of it, though. Can anyone comment on how it handles?
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Gabriel Lebec
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PostPosted: Sun 19 Nov, 2006 7:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Harlan Hastings used to own one (sold it in the classifieds section on this site), and in this old Swordforum thread stated it "just feels right." His post history is infrequent but you can try sending him a PM (Private Message) from his profile; he might have email notification turned on and reply with his thoughts on the sword.
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Addison C. de Lisle




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PostPosted: Sun 19 Nov, 2006 8:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric Holt wrote:

I've looked at the Albion Reeve, but although I could afford one if I really wanted it I don't want to spend that much on this first sword. Maybe later on. And actually, it's the Sovereign that I REALLY have my eye on Happy


I think that it's worth the wait to get an Albion. You really can't go wrong, and they are top quality. A less expensive alternative to the Sovereign is the Yeoman, which I really liked at the NYC Show last week. A slightly more expensive hand and a half that sounds like it fits your profile is the Castellan, Mercenary, or Constable. You could also look at an Angus Trim piece for a less expensive option, and from what I've heard of them they are great performance swords, if not necessarily as historically accurate. The AT1314 sounds like what you want.

Happy hunting!

www.addisondelisle.com
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Eric Holt





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PostPosted: Sun 19 Nov, 2006 8:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

After giving it some thought I think I'm going to wait a while before making a decision on this.

I think I'll be better off in the long run if I save up $1000 and make a decision based on what I really want rather than going with what I can afford at the moment. Besides, I only started looking at swords recently and there's no telling what I might discover in the meantime.

Thanks for all the replies, it's been very helpful.
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John Cooksey




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PostPosted: Sun 19 Nov, 2006 9:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric Holt wrote:
After giving it some thought I think I'm going to wait a while before making a decision on this.

I think I'll be better off in the long run if I save up $1000 and make a decision based on what I really want rather than going with what I can afford at the moment. Besides, I only started looking at swords recently and there's no telling what I might discover in the meantime.

Thanks for all the replies, it's been very helpful.


Might be a good decision---more research never hurts. There are lots of things to see and learn in this hobby.
Heck, it could even become an obsession! (grin)

I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender.
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Mike Capanelli




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Nov, 2006 7:13 am    Post subject: .....................................         Reply with quote

Eric Holt wrote:
After giving it some thought I think I'm going to wait a while before making a decision on this.

I think I'll be better off in the long run if I save up $1000 and make a decision based on what I really want rather than going with what I can afford at the moment. Besides, I only started looking at swords recently and there's no telling what I might discover in the meantime.

Thanks for all the replies, it's been very helpful.


Now that is in my opinion the best way to go. If you think about it, if you like a more expensive sword, but settle for a cheaper one until you can afford the more exspencive piece, you'll end up spending more in the long run then if you just wait and save for what you want. Believe me when I started I made this mistake. I always end up selling out of a sword for a little less then I paid and moving up to the one I wanted in the first place, spending more along the way then if I just waited and saved. Oh well, live and learn. Big Grin
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Kenton Spaulding




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Nov, 2006 8:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You should also take a look at what Arms and Armor has to offer. www.arms-n-armor.com they have a few swords that would seem like what you are looking for. The Henry V, Duke of Urbino, and English Longsword might interest you. They are a little more expensive than Museum Replicas, but well worth the price. They are also a little less money than most Albions.

Good luck,

Kenton
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Tue 21 Nov, 2006 9:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Take a look at the Albion Squire Line 15th century bastard. http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/sq...astard.htm
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Eric Holt





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PostPosted: Tue 21 Nov, 2006 4:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Roger Hooper wrote:
Take a look at the Albion Squire Line 15th century bastard. http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/sq...astard.htm


That's a good suggestion. However, it's a blunt and I want to be able to practice cutting on light targets and I have no intentions of sparring with steel. It could be sharpened, of course, but I don't trust myself to do the job.

I'm leaning towards the Albion Mercenary for a bastard sword. It looks just about right.
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Gabriel Lebec
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PostPosted: Tue 21 Nov, 2006 11:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just FYI, Albion's "Squire Line" swords do indeed come blunt standard - but sharpening is a negligible $25 extra. Of course, I'm not discouraging you from looking at the Mercenary... Wink
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