Got helmet, need rest... -- myArmoury.com

Richard Lund · Posted: Fri 06 Oct, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject: Got helmet, need rest...

Hi,
I found this forum (which so far looks just like what I've been looking for!) in my research about a helmet that my wife's sister found for me.
I'm a bit of a fanatic for medieval times (even though I don't really know much about them), so getting that helmet for 35 bucks was a must :-)

Anyway, I found out that it seems to be a Normal helmet (Spangenhelm) and fits about into the time period of the Battle of Hastings (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Now I need an outfit and a sword :-)

I went to a fabric store and found a nice off-white fabric I can use to sew a shirt, and I found some fake wolf fur to make into a cape of sorts.

There's not much money that I can spend on this, so I'll have to make as much as possible myself and find stuff the cheaper way (even at the cost of some authenticity).

I am hoping that some of you can help me with the following needs:

-cutting and sewing templates for a shirt and pants - as easy as possible. I am thinking of starting with the torso by folding the fabric and sewing it together, leaving the bottom opening and space for the arms, and then I'll try to attach sleeves. No idea about the pants yet, so I could also use suggestions for fabrics.

-ideas for a leather cap with a long back to wear so the chainmail doesn't rip my hair off - I need to know how and where to get leather and how to cut it to make it into a cap.

-a sword that fits into the time period, is more of the lighter persuasion (weight-wise) and is cheap! I'd also prefer it NOT to be sharp! I saw one on ebay for under 100 bucks and might go with it if I can't find anything else, but I'm also not sure what to look for - searching for Viking and Norman brings up way too much stuff... Therefore finally:

-pictures and illustrations of the time period or of authentical and well researched replica. I tried the Tapestry of Bayeux, but it's not that helpful to me unless I can get close-up shots of the parts that I need. I might even spend a little money on books, but it would have to be the "perfect" book for my case - my short search so far was very disappointing.

-oh, and foot wear! Same thing - if I can't find anything, I'll use my moccasins ;-)

Here's a picture of the helmet by the way. I am not very convincing as a warrior (way underweight), but what the heck ;-)

Lots of questions - obviously I'm a newb asking way too much - but I hope I can get at least some pointers in the right direction without the need to spend a fortune.

Thanks a lot!

Richard
[/img]

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Fri 06 Oct, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject:

Hello Richard,

My wife and I use clothing patterns from this source.
http://www.smoke-fire.com/medieval-patterns-1.asp

The quality is good and each pattern comes with helpful ideas on historic detail.

On the helmet: if you're concerned with authenticity the mail neck drap needs to go. It's not substantiated for the period and if you can't afford a mail coif wearing the helmet without one would be better.

On the sword: unfortunately cheap and accurate don't usually go hand in hand. However, one of MRLs recent offerings might provide a low-cost option until you can get something better.
http://www.museumreplicas.com/webstore/eCat/s...sword.aspx
It's based on this original.

Like most MRL swords this one has some issues but with a bit of work it might do. The next step up would be one of Del Tins offerings. They would feature better appearance but the DTs depicting this era tend to be rather piggish in their handling but they aren't sharp.

Please allow me to do a bit of self-promotion. Big Grin

Here's a couple of photos of my own 11th century kit, perhaps you can get some ideas from them.

This winter I intend to attach an integral coif to my hauberk as research indicates this was the state-of-the-art development during this period.

You might also find this interesting, particularly the last chapter.
http://www.albion-swords.com/articles/norman.htm

Unfortunately period documentation concerning the equipment of the 11th century is pretty fragmentary. Much of it, like the Bayeaux tapestry isn't clearly defined and it's hard to decipher the makers interpretation.

Nick Trueman · Posted: Fri 06 Oct, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject:

"Here's a couple of photos of my own 11th century kit, perhaps you can get some ideas from them."

Tops kit! What paint did you use for the helm? Acrylic/oil?

Wish all reenactors took so much care in choices

N

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Fri 06 Oct, 2006 8:58 pm Post subject:

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Fri 06 Oct, 2006 9:04 pm Post subject:

Richard, one other thing: you mentioned a cap of leather. A padded fabric cap is a far better choice. One made from quilted linen would be much more correct. The leather will also tend to rot fairly quickly as you'll sweat on it.

Richard Lund · Posted: Fri 06 Oct, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject:

Thanks for your replies so far!
That's a really cool kit you have!
For starters I might "ignore" a few pieces of authenticity in favor of cost - for this year, it's just going to be a relatively simple Halloween's costume with the helmet and a possible sword being the center point, no other chain, just plain clothes and a cape.
Time will also be an issue right now (busy at work etc.).

Has anyone ever seen any simple shirt and pants patterns for download for free anywhere?
And do you have pictures of yourself in plain clothes of the time period, i.e. without the chain?

And I forgot about the shoes until I read another thread here :-)

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Sat 07 Oct, 2006 4:26 am Post subject:

Nick Trueman · Posted: Sat 07 Oct, 2006 5:13 am Post subject:

No worries, wont hijack!

Heres another couple of pics wich might help?

N

Nick Trueman · Posted: Sat 07 Oct, 2006 5:17 am Post subject:

another pic, manuscript pic, nice one for this period

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Sat 07 Oct, 2006 5:44 am Post subject:

Here's a few clothing images.

http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/rhuddlan/images/1100-helmarshausen.jpg

Richard Lund · Posted: Sat 07 Oct, 2006 9:00 am Post subject:

These are great pictures and exactly what I was hoping for!
Thanks so much!

Out of the clothing pictures that Patrick sent, on the first picture in the second row on the right or at the bottom in the middle is the neckline look I would like to go for.

What I realized is that they didn't wear shirts and pants the way we do today, but longer knee-long "shirts" which I assume are what is called a tunic.

Now I have to hope that I have enough fabric for it...

So if that is called a tunic, then googling should be a lot easier than "medieval shirt" :-)

Thanks again!

Richard Lund · Posted: Sat 07 Oct, 2006 9:33 am Post subject:

Man, once I searched for "norman tunic pattern" I got tons of results, and some of the first ones already were a huge source of information. I am quoting them here so others may benefit from them, too.

http://www.reddawn.net/costume/patterns.htm (lots of links)
http://garbindex.com/content/t-tunic.php

Now I have to figure out which type looks the most authentic to the picture I chose, and which pattern is the easiest to make for me. So far they don't look too complicated, even though I've only ever touched a sewing machine once (to sew some curtains on two poles to cover the skylights in our bedroom), but my wife at least thinks it was a smashing success, so I'm kinda doubtful and hopeful at the same time *g*

Googling is so much easier when you know what you are looking for...

The pictures look as if they had not worn any pants, only long socks. Any idea if they had pants or not?
So far, they look a little Scottish (yes, the usual question about what's underneath comes to mind...) with their kilts (och!).

Someone in the fabric store suggested tights, but I think they came up later, and they wouldn't have had stretchy materials, either. Any ideas?

Thanks!

Tom Carr · Posted: Sat 07 Oct, 2006 10:59 am Post subject:

[quote="Richard Lund"]

Out of the clothing pictures that Patrick sent, on the first picture in the second row on the right or at the bottom in the middle is the neckline look I would like to go for.

That style can be found here. They might even have what you want in stock.
http://www.merchantadventurers.com/admed.htm

Richard Lund · Posted: Sat 07 Oct, 2006 2:37 pm Post subject:

Forgot to ask:
Is it legal in the US to carry a sword of that size?
Any limits, i.e. does it have to be blunt or sheathed or anything else?
And in case laws are different from state to state: How about Minnesota?

Bruno Giordan · Posted: Sat 07 Oct, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject:

If you need to stay cheap avoid buyng a sword in the low range, you shall better spare money for some time while buyng a real replica that will satisfy you.

In the meanime you will be 100 per cent correct carryng a battle axe (maybe you can modify a stock common axe) or a spear that will not cost you a fotune, much less than a bad sword, while being your secof=d wepon when you will be able to buy a real sword.

I did the error to waste money on a $ 250 sword that now I would like to throw in a garbage dump, with just some more time of wait I could be now having something meanigful

Look at the Regia Anglorum website

Richard Lund · Posted: Sat 07 Oct, 2006 3:16 pm Post subject:

I was thinking of axes, but there are none on ebay in this country at the moment.

The best match so far is one for about 100 bucks that is NOT sharp - I don't want to hurt myself with my first sword...

In what way were you dissatisfied with a cheaper buy?

I do not intend to do show battles - I'll be glad if I know which end is the dangerous one ;-)
I may (very carefully) see how it handles and check with a friend of mine who used to teach stage sword fighting.

Also there is much confusion out there about Viking and Norman, and I am having a hard time finding a sword that looks right on ebay.

Does the type of sword that was posted earlier have a specific name I can search for?

How bad would this one be (except that the guards don't look right):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem...B:EF:US:11

My preferred budget for the sword (for now) is under 100 bucks, and I don't think I'll be able to find a new one for that price...

Eric Allen · Posted: Sat 07 Oct, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject:

Max von Bargen · Posted: Sun 08 Oct, 2006 11:27 am Post subject:

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Sun 08 Oct, 2006 1:20 pm Post subject:

If a halloween costume is all that's desired there are plenty of props that can be obtained from a costume shop. These are much cheaper than lower-end armor and weapons.

Richard Lund · Posted: Sun 08 Oct, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject:

FOR NOW (!) I just want something for Halloween - but I do have the strong feeling it won't end there (knowing what happened with my other passions, hehe).

We have a few theater stores in town, so I can try there - doubt they'll have something as specific as Norman accessories, but you never know...

If everything fails, I'll just get a good thick stick for a quarter staff and use that for the time being.

I'll definitely use the patterns you pointed me to, so thanks so much for that!

Still wondering - what makes the cheaper swords so bad?