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Thomas Laible
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 Posted: Sat 23 Sep, 2006 8:16 am Post subject: Sword of Vlad Tepes (Dracula) |
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Some years ago I've seen a tv dosumentation about Vlad Dracula.
In this documentation ist was stated, that his sword and armor are exhibited in the army museum of Bucarest.
If my memory is right , the sword has been a rather corroded large bastard sword with a broad blade. (I'm not sure if I did see side rings at the guard).
Has anybody informations about this sword? Do we have any romanian member?
Thomas
student at www.alte-kampfkunst.de
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Barrett Hiebert
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| Posted: Sat 23 Sep, 2006 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Greetings,
I have recently joined this forum from word of mouth from SFI, and I must say I am Romanian but was adopted from their and came to Canada, and it has created my a hankering for learning about my countries historu of arms and armour. I would also like to know the truth of your statement, and I shall ask around in the Romanian SCA forum. Thanks for bringing it up, and have a good day! Cheers!
Barrett Michael Hiebert
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Thomas Laible
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| Posted: Mon 25 Sep, 2006 10:10 am Post subject: Welcome |
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Hello Barrett,
welcome to the forum.
I'm looking forward to the answer of your roamnian friends.
Best regards,
Thomas
student at www.alte-kampfkunst.de
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Barrett Hiebert
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| Posted: Mon 25 Sep, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Greetings,
Thankyou, it is good to meet you too. As soon as they reply to my last post, I shall pop the question to him. My personal opinion due to the history of Vlad Dracula, that he was living in exile in Transilvannia in the 1430's was that his armour and weapons were mainly European-influenced as that Transilvannia was a part of the Hungarian Empire, who mainly used German armour, or Italian. At least that is my belief from already-digressed information from my romanian friends. But I shall definately get to the bottom of this! Have a good day! Cheers!
Barrett Michael Hiebert
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Ruel A. Macaraeg
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| Posted: Mon 25 Sep, 2006 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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In the well-known and otherwise very readable biography Dracula -- Prince of Many Faces, his sword is said to have been his father's (Vlad Dracul's), and made in Toledo. Unfortunately no source is cited for this attribution.
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Bill Tsafa
Location: Brooklyn, NY Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 599
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| Posted: Wed 27 Sep, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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I too have heard the story that Vlad the Impaler carried his father's Toledo sword till his death. I have looked into gaining further information about the sword and have not been able to find any. Ther is only one surving picture of Vlad and it is a portrait. Sorry not sword in the portrait.
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Barrett Hiebert
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| Posted: Wed 27 Sep, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Greetings,
Well at the bottom of this page, you can see the answer to the question that you seek:
http://forum.drachenwald.sca.org/viewtopic.php?p=1779#1779
I was quite surprised to find out this information too, as of my previous speculation. It would be very nice to see an authentic hand-forged sword from Toledo, Spain historically, and modern! 
P.S. Vassilis Tsafatinos, are you by chance a citizen of Romania? If you are able I would love to ask you questions of Romania culture if you are, since I was born in Bucuresti of October 09, 1989!
Thankyou all, and have a good night! Cheers!
Barrett Michael Hiebert
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Thomas Laible
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| Posted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 4:39 am Post subject: |
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Barett,
according to my knowledge this painting was done after the famous portrait form Ambras Catle which was done in the 16th century - long after his death. So this painting is no evidence that Vlad really used a kilij as weapon - this maybe only the idea of the artist.
Also the question about the sword in the army museum of Bucarest is still unanswered.
Another possibility: Vlad could have used a kilij as representative dress sword and another one for battle - this was very common.
Thomas
student at www.alte-kampfkunst.de
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Mikko Kuusirati
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| Posted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 6:02 am Post subject: |
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He could also have worn a kilij as a trophy, spoils of war from the Ottoman invaders...?
"And sin, young man, is when you treat people like things. Including yourself. That's what sin is."
— Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum
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Blaz Berlec
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Barrett Hiebert
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| Posted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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\Greetings,
Thomas Laible:
| Quote: | Barett,
according to my knowledge this painting was done after the famous portrait form Ambras Catle which was done in the 16th century - long after his death. So this painting is no evidence that Vlad really used a kilij as weapon - this maybe only the idea of the artist.
Also the question about the sword in the army museum of Bucarest is still unanswered.
Another possibility: Vlad could have used a kilij as representative dress sword and another one for battle - this was very common.
Thomas |
I shall definately be asking my romanian friends again, and directing to this thread once again, and being much more specific in my questioning. Thanks for bringing it up!
Mikko Kuusirati:
| Quote: | | He could also have worn a kilij as a trophy, spoils of war from the Ottoman invaders...? |
That could be a very good possiblity but if you read the thread that I had previously posted, showing the artist's depiction of Vlad Tepes, it is said that Vlad Tepes often stayed as a guest in the Saltun's palace ensuring that the (Ottomon Empire) Turks would not attack Wallachia.
Blaz Berlec:
[/quote]There's a little known portrait of Vlad Tepes in Slovenia, National Gallery from 1463. Vlad is here depicted as Pilatus judging the Christ. It was painted right after Hungarian king Matthias Corvinus proclaimed him a traitor, in his life time. Artist has propably worked from the woodcut print, so the portrait is quite simmilar to that from castle Ambras.
Link to the article, unfortunately in German:
http://www.siebenbuerger.de/sbz/sbz/news/1138528477,65029,.html
Unfortunately, no sword is depicted. But the armours of soldiers are interesting. | Quote: |
I would very much like to know who the artist was, and his backgorund was, of who created this painting as I am looking to historical art to decipher what armour was worn in regional Wallachia at the time!
Thankyou to all, and I shall try to get back to each of you as quickly as possible. Thankyou very much, and have a good day! Cheers!
Barrett Michael Hiebert |
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W. Schütz
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Blaz Berlec wrote: | | There's a little known portrait of Vlad Tepes in Slovenia, National Gallery from 1463. Vlad is here depicted as Pilatus judging the Christ. It was painted right after Hungarian king Matthias Corvinus proclaimed him a traitor, in his life time. Artist has propably worked from the woodcut print, so the portrait is quite simmilar to that from castle Ambras. |
That has to be one of the best pictures ive seen. Very greatful for such a treat.
And the italian armour is also great, esp the skirt.
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Blaz Berlec
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| Posted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a much bigger version, a scan I made from a book. But the picture hangs in our National Museum, I saw it again just last sunday. It's nowhere noted that the Pilatus is actually modelled as Vlad.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k26/Bwaze/K...abel-1.jpg
I don't have all the info about the picture now, I have to ask my girlfriend (she's an art historian student, and has done some research about this work).
The soldier on the right has a scale armour cuirass!?
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Thomas Laible
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| Posted: Fri 29 Sep, 2006 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| Barrett Hiebert wrote: | | \I shall definately be asking my romanian friends again, and directing to this thread once again, and being much more specific in my questioning. Thanks for bringing it up! |
[/quote]
Thanks a lot for your efforts, Barrett.
The painting your friends are referring to - see attached file - is the portrait from Castle Forchtenstein and was made after 1622 (Vlad was killed 1476 or 1477)
Contemporary images like the painting Blaz has find don't show him with any armor or weapons.
There is a kind of Vlad-Iconography: his famous hat with feathers and pearls, long, curly hair, crooked nose and mustache. So it seems the historial artists had known how he "had to be painted".
It may be that the Forchtenstein image was made from an earlier painting from 1466, but this portrait is showing him in dress robes, with a mace - the insignia of power, given to his father by emperor Sigismund - so it is most likely that there also would be a dress sword depicted.
Do you see any possibility to contact the army museum in Bucharest? I googled to find a website, but had no success.
@Blaz:
I'll try to translate the article if I can find somewhat time
Regards,
Thomas
 Attachment: 14.61 KB
student at www.alte-kampfkunst.de
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Travis Canaday
Location: Overland Park, Kansas Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Fri 29 Sep, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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I emailed a lady named Elizabeth Miller who has studied the myth and reality of Dracula/Vlad Tepes and asked her about this. She has treveled in that region, so I asked if she has seen any arms or armour attributed to Vlad. This is what she sent me:
I am traveling this week but next week I will have a look. I know for
sure that there is a museum in Sighisoara (Vlad's birthplace) that
contains numerous armoury items. I need to look to see if I can find
photos & published information.
Elizabeth Miller
http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~emiller/ [Dracula's homepage]
http://www.blooferland.com/drc [Dracula Research Centre]
"Fii binevenit in casa mea! Intra de bunavoie, nesilit de nimeni!"
So who knows... She might be able to tell/show us something here soon. I thought that was pretty cool of her.
Travis
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Merv Cannon
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| Posted: Fri 29 Sep, 2006 9:37 pm Post subject: Vlad Boy, Vlad Boy, Whatcha Gonna Do ? |
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Hi Thomas and everybody...........In my poking around on the web for Vlad I found this ............ http://www.mwctoys.com/REVIEW_040704a.htm ........... and I just had to share it with you...actually, call me wierd, but I thing I want one !!  ......... (Also they really do have some good links at the bottom of the page )
Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/
"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
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Merv Cannon
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| Posted: Fri 29 Sep, 2006 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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/quote]There's a little known portrait of Vlad Tepes in Slovenia, National Gallery from 1463. Vlad is here depicted as Pilatus judging the Christ. It was painted right after Hungarian king Matthias Corvinus proclaimed him a traitor, in his life time. Artist has propably worked from the woodcut print, so the portrait is quite simmilar to that from castle Ambras.
Link to the article, unfortunately in German:
http://www.siebenbuerger.de/sbz/sbz/news/1138528477,65029,.html
BTW..............All you do is click on the link and cut and paste the address back into the Google web-search box ( I have the Toolbar) and then hit "search " and then when it comes up click on "Translate this Page" and ....there you have it !!
Merv ....... KOLR
http://www.lionrampant.com.au/
"Then let slip the dogs of war ! "......Woof !
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Barrett Hiebert
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| Posted: Fri 29 Sep, 2006 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Greetings,
Thomas Liable:
| Quote: | Barrett Hiebert wrote:
\I shall definately be asking my romanian friends again, and directing to this thread once again, and being much more specific in my questioning. Thanks for bringing it up!
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Thanks a lot for your efforts, Barrett.
The painting your friends are referring to - see attached file - is the portrait from Castle Forchtenstein and was made after 1622 (Vlad was killed 1476 or 1477)
Contemporary images like the painting Blaz has find don't show him with any armor or weapons.
There is a kind of Vlad-Iconography: his famous hat with feathers and pearls, long, curly hair, crooked nose and mustache. So it seems the historial artists had known how he "had to be painted".
It may be that the Forchtenstein image was made from an earlier painting from 1466, but this portrait is showing him in dress robes, with a mace - the insignia of power, given to his father by emperor Sigismund - so it is most likely that there also would be a dress sword depicted.
Do you see any possibility to contact the army museum in Bucharest? I googled to find a website, but had no success.
@Blaz:
I'll try to translate the article if I can find somewhat time
Regards,
Thomas[/quote]
I will definately be asking them that question, and I am hoping to be eligible for my dual Canadian-Romanian citizenship, since I was born their, lol, and it'd be really awesome and so reliable and conveint if I could get it! Thanks for the information, very insightful. How do you know so much, and why are you so interested, if you don't mind me asking?
Travis Canady:
Thanks for the links, I'm definately sure she'll be able to supply us with some very generous information! Be sure to send her our heartfelt thanks! I'll be looking through it tomorrow hopefully, if all goes well!!
Merv Cannon:
| Quote: | | BTW..............All you do is click on the link and cut and paste the address back into the Google web-search box ( I have the Toolbar) and then hit "search " and then when it comes up click on "Translate this Page" and ....there you have it !! |
Awesome procedure, my man!
Thanks all for your patience and support.. Goodnight to you all! Cheers!
Barrett Michael Hiebert
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Thomas Laible
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| Posted: Sat 30 Sep, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Barrett Hiebert wrote: | | How do you know so much, and why are you so interested, if you don't mind me asking? |
Of course I don't mind.
Swords are not my only interest 
Some of my interests have turned to rather serious points - Highlander and swords led to my job (I'm writing for a german gun and knives magazine - and just have finished my book about swords  ) - other interests will stay only "unuseful fun subjects".
I was always interested in vampires and when I learned that there is a historical background for Dracula I was fascinated.
I studied history at the university so I'm experienced in research and somewhat familiar with analyzing historical paintings.
When I first watched this documentary about Vlad - the tape had gone lost during a move - myArmoury.com didn't exist. But now there is an opportunity to discuss such a sepcialized item like Vlad's sword with highly qualified spathologists.
Thomas
student at www.alte-kampfkunst.de
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Thomas Laible
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| Posted: Sat 30 Sep, 2006 9:22 am Post subject: |
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| Travis Canaday wrote: | I emailed a lady named Elizabeth Miller who has studied the myth and reality of Dracula/Vlad Tepes and asked her about this. She has treveled in that region, so I asked if she has seen any arms or armour attributed to Vlad. This is what she sent me:
I am traveling this week but next week I will have a look. I know for
sure that there is a museum in Sighisoara (Vlad's birthplace) that
contains numerous armoury items. I need to look to see if I can find
photos & published information.
Elizabeth Miller
http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~emiller/ [Dracula's homepage]
http://www.blooferland.com/drc [Dracula Research Centre]
"Fii binevenit in casa mea! Intra de bunavoie, nesilit de nimeni!"
So who knows... She might be able to tell/show us something here soon. I thought that was pretty cool of her. |
Pretty cool, indeed !!!!
student at www.alte-kampfkunst.de
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