| Author |
Message |
Matt Branch
Location: Lakewood Colorado Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 27
|
 Posted: Fri 22 Sep, 2006 3:11 pm Post subject: Trying to identify double edge sword and hilt |
 |
|
I am pretty new to swords, I recently Inherited this sword.
Can someone here tell me about the blade and hilt?
The blade is double edged and has 3 groves near the hilt. There are various engravings? on the blade which include a bird with a snake in it's beak pearched on a cactus.
What are the groves for?
Where was this type blade made?
The hilt appears to be steel is this a 3 bar hilt?
It has a fold down gaurd, who made hilts with fold down gaurds?
Any help would be appreciated!!!
Thanks
Matt
 Attachment: 75.51 KB
Attachment: 78.66 KB
Attachment: 51.03 KB
Attachment: 86.29 KB
Attachment: 91.11 KB
|
|
  |
 |
Dan Dickinson
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Fri 22 Sep, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, I'm certainly no expert, but a rough guess from the Eagle with snake and the overall look of the hilt components, 19th Century Mexican?
Not very specific, but hope it helps somewhat.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jonathan Hopkins
|
| Posted: Fri 22 Sep, 2006 7:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"What are the groves for?"
To lighten (and sometime strengthen) the blade. The groves are called "fullers".
"Where was this type blade made?"
All over Europe.
"The hilt appears to be steel is this a 3 bar hilt? "
Yes.
"It has a fold down guard, who made hilts with fold down guards?"
Again, many European countries and the US. A guard of the same size that does not fold will rub against clothing and cause damage (and might be uncomfortable). A folding guard eliminated, or at least minimized, the problem.
I have seen your posts of this sword on SFI in the Antique and Military section. Have you tried posting in the Spanish Language section?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jonathan Hopkins
|
| Posted: Fri 22 Sep, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In Harvey Withers' World Swords 1400-1945, there is a Mexican cavalry officer's sword. It is not the same as yours, but it has nearly identical blade decoration. Here is what Harvey has to say about the sword that might also apply to yours:
"Trade links between Germany and the Mexican State were quite strong during this period [1840s] and it is probable that agents for the sword companies were present in the country."
You stated that the blade was marked "P.D.L.", which we determined was for Paul D. Luneschloss, a German sword manufacturer. Per Bezdek's German Swords and Sword Makers: P. (Paul) D. Luneschloss used P.D.L. and a Helmet and Sword mark. The company was active between 1810 and 1965.
|
|
|
|
|
|
GG Osborne
|
| Posted: Fri 22 Sep, 2006 8:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The eagle with the snake in its mouth is definitly a Mexican motif having its origin from the Aztec legends regarding the founding of what is now Mexico City.
"Those who live by the sword...will usually die with a huge, unpaid credit card balance!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jonathan Hopkins
|
| Posted: Fri 22 Sep, 2006 8:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Instead of reading what others have written (I am referring to what someone wrote on SFI), I should have looked more closely at the blade. The PDL could be for P.D. Luneschloss, but that could very well be owner's initials. I would still stand by the claim that the sword was made in Germany for the Mexican market. Sorry to have been misleading!
Jonathan
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jonathan Hopkins
|
| Posted: Sat 23 Sep, 2006 9:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
As I stated before, many European countries used the folding guard. Here are two British swords from my collection to illustrate:
Attachment: 61.05 KB
British Pattern 1822/1845 Infantry Officer's Sword
Attachment: 27.24 KB
British Pattern 1796 Infantry Officer's Sword
|
|
|
|
|
Matt Branch
Location: Lakewood Colorado Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 27
|
| Posted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for all the information. I'm still having trouble identifing the sword. There are very few books around Denver in stores or the library.
Matt
|
|
|
|
|
|
Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Thu 28 Sep, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Matt Branch wrote: | Thanks for all the information. I'm still having trouble identifing the sword. There are very few books around Denver in stores or the library.
Matt |
Although not familiar at all with the genre and hence no help at all in identifying this particular piece I would suggest that the whole internet is your resource not just libraries in the Denver area, and if it is books that you are looking for I would wander over to amazon.com or abebooks.com or any of the various and sundry book sites and start putting in search terms like "military sabers" and see what comes up. Good luck in your search.
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
|
|
|
|
|
Matt Branch
Location: Lakewood Colorado Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 27
|
| Posted: Fri 29 Sep, 2006 6:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Russ Ellis wrote: | | Matt Branch wrote: | Thanks for all the information. I'm still having trouble identifing the sword. There are very few books around Denver in stores or the library.
Matt |
Although not familiar at all with the genre and hence no help at all in identifying this particular piece I would suggest that the whole internet is your resource not just libraries in the Denver area, and if it is books that you are looking for I would wander over to amazon.com or abebooks.com or any of the various and sundry book sites and start putting in search terms like "military sabers" and see what comes up. Good luck in your search. |
I'm trying to avoid buying books unseen and not pertinant to my sword at this point. So I'm looking for details to put me in the right direction....like, is the wire wrapped around the handel gold? it's the only part of my sword that dose not show corrosion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jonathan Hopkins
|
| Posted: Fri 29 Sep, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Matt Branch wrote: | | is the wire wrapped around the handel gold? it's the only part of my sword that dose not show corrosion. |
It is likely copper or brass, quite common on 19th century swords.
In North Denver there is a small antiques mall/center called "The Yankee Peddlar" (I think it's on Raleigh or Tennyson, try the phone book). There is a booth there that has some 19th century swords. You could try to get in touch with the dealer to see if he has any in-person expert advice to give you. One Broadway there is a place called "Pack Rat Antiques"--not the nicest sounding name, but they have some swords and other unique antiques. Perhaps someone there could offer help as well.
Best of luck!
Jonathan
|
|
|
|
|
Matt Branch
Location: Lakewood Colorado Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 27
|
| Posted: Wed 04 Oct, 2006 7:28 am Post subject: Thanks |
|
|
Thanks for you're comments!!!
I did try a few antique dealers including the ones you told me about, couldn't find out much.
One wanted to charge me $50. an hour to research my sword, wasn't interested in talking to me if I didn't pay him.
So I'm still looking for info.
I have found out that one of my ancesters was commisioned to 2nd leutenant for bravery in the cival war 1863.
I had thought that might have been where the sword came from.
I'm still trying to find out if he served during the mexican war.
Are there any books that show the coat of arms on mexican swords?
I did get a response on the sword forum international spanish language thread. Thanks for the suggestion.
Have fun out there.
Matt
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is a standard topic