[Carl Goff]

http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/Arming_Wear.html

Anyone who's used item #4 on the page, I'd love some commentary, as I don't have the money for one of the more expensive, more historical versions. Although with only four layers, I'm not sure how "historical" they really are! Weren't traditional gambesons about 16-32 layers?

[Bill Grandy]

I can't speak for that specific one, but it looks very much like the Hanwei and MRL gambesons, which are little more protection than a thick sweater, I'm afraid. Plus if it's nylon fill, like the aforementioned ones are, then it will be very hot for being so unprotective.

[Patrick Kelly]

I've examined one and it's pretty much the same as the black ones offered by MRL, etc. It consists of a cotton shell and poly-fill batting. Like the MRL version, it won't breath and will retain heat. Not a very good choice for a gambeson.

[Carl Goff]

They've got an "extra padding" option, but just the protective value of a thick sweater? Ouch.

And it figures you'd stick me with the "girl mannequin" image.

Edit: Thank you, Patrick. Missed your somehow. Guess I'm not gonna be buying it after all, not if two of the site's most experienced members say "don't."

[Jean Thibodeau]

You could also look at these: http://www.revivalclothing.com/

They have a new less expensive than their linen gambison. I have two of the linen ones and I'm happy with them.

The very thick multilayer one are more for stand alone armour and thinner ones might be used under maille or plate.

I'm not 100% sure about the thickness issue and use in the historical accuracy context though.

Avoid anything polyester shell or fill as it doesn't breathe.

The ones you linked to also look interesting IF polyester fill isn't used in some of them. ( And not too thin. )

Prices seem similar for the economy version by revival clothing and those will breathe ( On sale so actually less expensive ).

[Carl Goff]

See, that's the problem. I am a college student. Which means I'm borderline broke (no job at the moment).

The cheap gambeson I was posting about only comes to $115 with the extra padding option. I can maybe swing that. $200-250 is way out of my price range for just a gambeson.

Edit: And from what Patrick and Bill have said, it's not worth the price.

[Marc-Antoine Jean]

Is the gambeson you want will be used in full 15th C. armored combat ? In that case you should search for an arming doublet instead of a gambeson. Essentially gambesons were made to ofer padded protection when used with chainmails or with nothing else, mostly made linen filled with wool. An arming doublet was the padded version of a civilian doublet made of linen where some linen paded parts were added to offer protection against your own armour when you move, fight or fall down. On those doublets there were points to attach pieces of armour directly on it.
Before buying such equipment there are some thing you must know.
Do you need a gambeson or an arming doublet? Do you want to make historic fencing? Sport armour fighting? Do you want an iondustrial made gambeson/doublet made of cotton with synthetics fibers inside? Do you want it historicaly accurate with hand made stichings?
http://pages.infinit.net/gambison/
Take a look here. The website is in french but it is tooooo simple to understand. Just note that a doublet d'arme is an arming doublet.
Those offered by By-The-Sword, Hanwei, MRL are cheap versions of what a gambeson/arming doublet is. Those offered by L'Hermine are great. Www.historicenterprises.com offers really great arming doublets made for renactors. You can also find independant manufacturers who can offer you the top of the line gambeson/doublet but those are quite expensive but IT REALLY WORTH THE PRICE YOU PAY FOR. In that case you should try ton contact Evelyn Bouchard from Monreal. Here is her photo album http://www.imagestation.com/members/evelyne_bouchard and her email is evelyne_bouchard@yahoo.ca
You can also contact teh Conpagny Of Saynt George, they have few contacts for costume making.
etc...etc...etc...etc..

[W. R. Reynolds]

Goff,

16-32 layers of linen equals a padded jack, an armour in it's own right and an entirely different animal from a gambeson or arming doublet. As stated in an earlier post, DO consider what the final intended purpose is as it WILL make a world of difference in you comfort level. I can personally attest to this, having done fighting and re-enacting for many years starting with pure poop for harness to the LH quality that I now use. A little extra money will give you a functional peice of equipment that should last for many years, provided you don't out grow it. Proper underpinnings are essential not only for comfort but for freedom of movement as well.

[Christian Henry Tobler]

Hello Marc-Antoine et. al.,

The Revival Clothing gambeson is intended for wear as either a light standalone armour or a foundation for a late 14th century harness. For Western Martial Arts use in controlled bouting with steel or wooden wasters, the addition of good gauntlets, some simple steel elbow cops, and perhaps a very simple breast defense, makes for a good light weight kit.

As you know, terms like aketon, jupon, arming coat, gambeson, pourpoint, etc. are used imprecisely by both period authors and modern authorities alike. But, by your definition, what we're offering is an earlier style arming coat based upon the similarly-shaped Charles de Blois and Charles VI garments, as well as a number of iconographic sources.

The Historic Enterprises arming doublet would be used exclusively under armour of the mid-late 15th c., but has insufficient padding (in fact, almost none) for use as a standalone defense (which is fine - that's how that design is intended to work).

This new version - which just debuted online only today - is an economical alternative to our more upscale linen gambeson, using the same pattern and featuring the 'grand assiette' deeply set sleeve design that facilitates movement of the arms without the hem moving - an important consideration when a cuirass is worn over the garment. The garment has a very sturdy cotton canvas outer shell, three layers of 100% cotton batting as the padding, and a cotton lining. The garment breathes very well.

Hope this helps,

Christian

[Bruno Giordan]

[Jonathan Blair]

I have one of the BTS gambesons. I wore it as part of my wedding outfit. It serves the purpose of not letting the rings of your mail shirt pull hair, but it is awfully thin with very little padding. Hot with cheap grommets for lacing. I remember it being cheaper than the MRL gambeson since MRL sold their gambeson and arming cap seperately while BTS sold theirs together at the same price as just MRL's gambeson. Ok for Ren Faire, seriously lacking as a LH garment. If I had it to do over again, I'd have made my own from linen.

[Randall Moffett]

Well part of the problem is that fabric armours as Christian said are often termed with the same words to mean different things. I recently was reading through some inventories during both the 14th and 15th centuries and they terms get used in very interesting ways and only infrequently are there descriptions to solve this. That said the basic idea of waht is needed does not change.
There are also contradicting ideas as to the amount of padding that should be worn for each type of item. Many think little padding or alot is needed under armour. Unfortunalty most people cannot take it for a test run to see what they like more or is appropriate for them. I like a padded garment under my armour. It absorbs some impact and used in in full armour during California's hottest summers i was fine. It does not impede my movement or hinder me in any real manner. Some people would not like to fight in such a garment under full plate armour. I do.
I think what you will find is that many scholars of textile armour disagree as well so I usually recommend to make ones own to once more see what you like. People cn tell you what the specialists have said but in the end you can find people who support each camp. You can make it up test it and add or take out what you don't like. I had a discussion with a curator at the RA who works with textile armours about this only a month ago for some hours and to her the under-armour would have to have had fairly well padding to it (we also discussed the possibility of the Charles de Blois coat as being civilian wear etc.).
So in the end I think if you feel brave make your own. There are plenty of people here who will help out (myself incuded of course) who have made then (I have made a number, my wife taught me to sew fairly well). If you have scissors and someone with a machine the patterns can be found and you would just need to print then size them and then get cutting and sewing. I use linen outside heavy and inside lighter with 1-3 layers of cotton batting ( depends on the weight of batting and beware poly blends as much as possible). I have some patterns I could email you if you decide to do it. Good luck.

RPM

[Tim Scott]

I'm also looking for an inexpensive gambison. ( trying to put together a beginner's kit for WMA practice )
Does anyone have any experience with, or opinion on, the one offered by The Renaissance Store ?

http://www.renstore.com

( look under the armour catagory - armour accessories - page 2 )

[Mark Mattimore]

I have the black Hanwei gambeson. Here is the good and the bad:

Bad
-Not historic at all, machine stitching, metal eyelets, synthetic fill, and the ties look like shoelaces
-Very thin, no real suitable padding
-Not very comfortable, a very generic cut that is supposed to be one-size-fits-all... but isn't really

Good
-It was only $80 and came with a matching arming cap

This wouldn't even come close to LH needs but might be OK for Ren Fairs. If you're looking for something with a vaguely historic look that would be worn under other garments, it's a cost-effective solution. Or just buy it with the intent of beating the hell out of it. But there are so many better options out there including the DIY route.

[Carl Goff]

[Randall Moffett]

From the jacks padded with over 20, especially 32 layers you start getting a pretty solid garment so make sure if you do arms to go less layers!

RPM

[Robert H. Shyan-Norwalt]

You'd do well to save up and by the linen shell, cotton batted one, with maybe linen or flax liner. They breath way better, and wick off more sweat. Are closer to period, and more practical. The poly filled ones will literally bake you on the field in the summer, and just sit on you like a wet dog. Or you do like me and have a quilter make you one custom? You'll find that if you buy the materials, it's cheaper in the long run, and you get what you want period wise.

I needed something for under my bernie, with a Pictish flare.

I'd not dare call it a aceton or gambasson, but here's my "Underlayment" for maille.

[W. R. Reynolds]

Carl,

You now have lots of information and opinions from the members of this forum but I can't help but think we are shooting in the dark here . Perhaps I missed it but I do not think that you ever stated what your intended purpose for the gambeson is. Will it be a stand alone for light WMA or an underpinning for a specific type of armour. If we had some details you might get some more focused replies to your query.

[K. Rose]

Hi Carl,

you've gotten a lot of excellent information here. I will echo most of what you've read already. This particular garment is quite lightweight and really doesn't breathe well for all it's lightness. One plus: the cost. I have one, but have ended up spending as much as a good gambeson with protective padding to put underneath.

One of the very first lines of defense for the medieval fighter was his gambeson. If they weren't wealthy they would pad them with whatever they could get their hands on...wool, leaves, etc. We don't have to do that now.
http://www.revivalclothing.com/ seems to have the best commercially made gambesons on the market. They are rugged, historically accurate and will take a beating. I can attest to this as I've taken that beating on numerous occasions.

I can personally verify that you can get a good whack with a shinai and will live though it unscathed. Do that with the garment you are looking at and you will have a bruise for a while. You may spend more now, but you will save in the long run many times over.

That's my two cents. Good luck with your search.

Karen