[Jean Thibodeau]

Oh, I'm getting a 100lbs Horsebow and I'm thinking of making some sort of practice arrow that won't go through stuff or get buried deep in a backstop ! I wonder how one would make a very durable arrow for very very short range practice indoors ?

I'm thinking using heavy doweling and using a .45 cartridge case for a flat point and then duct taping it into a bigger size + some sort of improvised fletching: Like I said a durable and safe practice arrow with minimal penetration in a soft target even with a heavy draw. ( No arrows though walls or out the kitchen window is the goal. Seriously, I would shoot in the basement with a cement wall behind my backstop just in case! )

The reason would be to practice draw and shooting as I get used to the draw weight and loosing at a heavy draw weight.

I guess this is the exact opposite of trying to get as much penetration as possible.

[Thimo Savbotta]

What you describe would be fine. However i'd also wrap a few layers of ducttape around the blunt as well. J

ust for kicks the other day I had an arrow that broke right at the bodkin. The end was totally flat, but when I shot it into 4" foam board out of a 115# bow it still went cleand through. Placeing old pillows or furniture cushions drapped in heavy blankets behind your target would be a good act of insurence. Just in case. Arrows striking concrete from that heavy of draw would put you out of arrows quick.

These are tips from a rainy-day indoor shooting fanatic. And yes I've had to break out the wall spackling more than once. he he

[Al Muckart]

Archers in the SCA in the USA use things called Baldar Blunts. I've never seen or used one myself, since down in the antipodes we use a much smaller/lighter blunt and equip fighters on the field with mesh faceguards instead.

Anyhow, the Baldar blunts probably compromise the handling characteristics of your arrows a bit but unless you've got a really long indoor range you probably won't notice.

You can find them at http://houseasgard.com/BaldarBlunts/

Having a heavy hanging backstop with some space behind it is also a really good idea. Fixed backstops will take a lot of damage, and your risk having things bounce off them, but a hanging backstop, say a couple of heavy blankets or something similar will move enough to absorb the energy from the arrow. A big curtain of chainmail would be perfect

[Elling Polden]

The simplest thing is to get Redhead rubber blunts. Originally made for hunting small game without destroying the fur, they are the standard tips in european reenactment.
They are much smaller than baldar blunts, and available from most vell stocked archery shops.

[Jean Thibodeau]

Thanks for the suggestions the idea is for it to not selfdestruct the first time it's used and making a target backstop soft and bouncy and deep that also won't be a one use thing: The combination of arrow and target is what will do the trick. If I make a great practice arrow but shoot it at cement wall it will be a one shot thing no matter how clever I try to be with the arrow materials.

If I figure out something that works I don't need many of them if they last a reasonable amount of time.
( Not real archery practice: just call it pre-practice practice. )

[Peter Bosman]

[J. Bedell]

Jean,
Those blunts look like a good idea for what you want.

Peter,
Do you have a website for where you get your bows?

[Peter Bosman]

http://www.grozerarchery.com

www.horsebackarchery.com

[Peter Bosman]

An english language site for Kassai is
http://www.horsebackarchery.co.nz/bear.html and I choose this page on purpose.

Kassai is commercial to the extreme. Nothing wrong with his bow, method and schools. He is the Pat Parelli of horsearchery and THE horsearcher himself.

Peter

[Jean Thibodeau]

Peter;

What happens to regular field point practice arrow shot at the typical indoor archery target range when bows are in the100lbs range ? I wonder if ranges allow this power of bows to be used ? ( Usually? Might vary from place to place. )

I just wonder if the arrows get buried down to the fletching or worse disappear in the backstop completely ?

If I remember accurately my 80lbs recurve would leave no more than half the arrow sticking out: It's been a while since I did some archery.

[Jason Daub]

Jean,

I haven't had a problem with any of the soft bag style targets stopping my shafts. Most of the guys up here are composite bow hunters winging slim little shafts at high speed, and the new targets have no trouble with them.

I personally have a Kassai Vazul from Horsebows with a 92lbs draw and the Morrell's YellowJacket bag I picked up at the local outdoors shop works fine. The only problem that I have run into is that a 90-95 spine shaft leaves a big hole in whatever you shoot at, which is wearing the bag out relatively quickly.

I would also say that the doweling idea isn't worth your time, you will have a bugger of a time finding something of reasonable diameter that will have the correct spine, and one of the easiest ways to miss is to have your arrows do whatever THEY feel like.

I don't know about traditional archery supply in Quebec but anything out here in western Canada is geared more toward the traditional hunter crowd and I have given up trying to find shafts spined heavier than approximately 75-80lbs. I personally order from 3Rivers Archery, they have a nice website and everything that I have ordered has shipped right away with no backorders and no mistakes.

As for the local ranges letting you shoot I don't know if they would have a problem, at every range I have been to in Alberta most of the guys were more interested in checking out the equipment than anything else. At most of them it is very rare to see anyone shooting traditional. Hope this is of help.

[Jean Thibodeau]

Jason;

Yes it does help.

And like I mentioned in the first post I don't expect an improvised arrow like this to do much more that let me practice pulling the bow and my release without dry firing the bow: Any " extreme close range " accuracy would be an extra but I don't expect any, thus limiting the value of this as practice. It might even be a way to acquire bad habits if it became the main or dominant form of practice.

Might even use a half inch diameter dowel to get enough spine ? When I get my bow with the right arrows I should have a better idea what diameter would be too much ! Again this wouldn't actually be a real or normal arrow for real target practice.

if I can find a closeby archery range and have no problem getting in regular practice this project would loose it's appeal.

As to arrows, custom made arrows are about the only way to go from what you said and I am going to get a handful of Bodkins and period type broadhead at the very least for display and get my replacements target arrows from customs sources. At the cost of these custom arrows my practice arrow(s) would also save wear and tear on my real arrows at least initial when I will want to just get used to the pull.

Finally, you may be very right that this may not be worth the effort and I am not so attached to the idea that I am stubbornly clinging to it: It just that I am still enjoying the ideas + or - about it.

At this point I think the topic is almost at the point where everything useful has already been said: Thank everyone who gave me their input. If anyone has some ideas not covered, so far, obviously I would still like to hear them.

[Peter Bosman]

[David Ruff]

Jean


Have hammered out the laminations that i will be using on this bow. I am creating a new form as my old one has seen better days. I need to finish up this other longbow i am making for a poster here and i will start the process of building yours. will most likely start next week. This other longbow is now on the tillering stick and coming down from 85lbs at 19" to a target of 60lbs at 25" - should take afew days.

I honestly would NOT use blunts off this bow, its a heavy weight and will require hevy arrows BUT it will also hit hard. It will break any baldare you send thru it and you will have spine problems as baldares are made to shoot out of lighter bows. The redheads are great to use - but again your gonna be hitting things hard and will snap shafts or create a condition where the wood will vibrate on contact and can induce stress cracks (not good on the next arrow use) as it could lead to failure on release.

I would go with a heavy free hanging back stop like arrow netting or a heavy rug and fire into a burlap sacj lightly stuffed with plastic bags with field points.

I am going for 80 to 105lbs on this bow - hope your muscles are tuned


PS - great talking to ya on the phone the other day, feel free to call anytime


David

[Jean Thibodeau]

Thanks David, my best bet will probably be finding an archery range close to home and use the " real " field points.

I can " experiment " with stuff but something that might work once might be a health hazard if stress become cumulative. I would certainly want to avoid catastrophic failure of a homemade shaft inches from my face !

I think full face protection might be a good idea using improvised arrows and even more when one is just guessing about what would work or be safe.

Yeah, that was a nice talk.

[Jean-Carle Hudon]

Jean,
Patrick Doiron is still making longbows out in Ste-Anne des Plaines, and he also makes arrows properly....tied-on fletching, proper feathers and so on, he will be one of the re-enactors out at the event in St-Colomban over the labor day weekend. He"ll be in charge of the range so you can't miss him. By the way, for others in the neighbourhood, they do give a fine jousting show, although a bit limited in scope.
A un de ces jours,
Jean-Carle

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Jean-Carle Hudon]

Salut Jean,
sorry for the delay. Patrick Doiron has no web site, but can be reached at home at 450-478-6503, he also makes saddles for his reenactment group which can be seen at the event in St-Colomban.
Jean-Carle

[Jean Thibodeau]