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Kirk Lee Spencer
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 Posted: Fri 14 Jul, 2006 2:39 pm Post subject: Migration Era Scabbards |
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Hi all...
There have been several very well preserved wooden scabbards from the migration age preserved in bog finds. It appears that they are made from two very thin wooden slats held together by the scabbard fittings.
I am not sure what type of wood was used, however, I am sure that it has been identified. The wood appears to be plain with one example of a knot type carving.
The scabbard tips are usually quite wide and rounded with decorative loop or hook devices for attaching the sword to the baldric or belt.
I have also read that there is some evidence that the interior of the scabbard was lined with wool and the mouth with horn.
I have attached the images I have...
If you know any more data about these scabbards please share it with us.
Thanks
ks
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Kragehul Bog Find with Bronze Fittings with Silver inlay of Animal Heads Image from Elis Behmer "Das Zweischneidege Schwert Der Germanischen Volkerwanderungzeit" 1939
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Kragehul Bog Find with Bronze Fittings with Silver inlay of Animal Heads Image by Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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Scabbard from Nydam Bog c.350, Image by Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Fri 14 Jul, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Here are a few more...
ks
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Carved Wooden Scabbard from Nydam Bog, image source Nydam Bog Webpage
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Wooden Scabbard Nydam Bog, Image source Nydam Bog Webpage
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Nydam Bog find, Scabbard has "Harkilar" inscribed on fittings, c.300 Image by Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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Wooden Scabbards from Nydam II bog, c.400, Image by Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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George Torma
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| Posted: Fri 14 Jul, 2006 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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As far as i know, viking and celtic scabbards were made of lots of different tipes of wood, from pinewood to oak. The type was implicitly defined by what the fighter could afford  .
For a replica, I would go for oak. It is quite affordable, easy to work with, and rather durable.
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Al Muckart
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| Posted: Fri 14 Jul, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| George Torma wrote: | As far as i know, viking and celtic scabbards were made of lots of different tipes of wood, from pinewood to oak. The type was implicitly defined by what the fighter could afford .
For a replica, I would go for oak. It is quite affordable, easy to work with, and rather durable. |
Be very careful using oak for any purpose where it's going to be in contact with expensive pieces of steel. Oak, even seasoned oak, is chock full of tannic acid which does not play nicely with iron or steel fittings.
You know how on old floorboards you see black marks around all the nail heads? That's iron oxide from the nails reacting with the tannins in the wood. Same principle can be used to make a very fast black dye for oak-tanned leather.
--
Al.
http://wherearetheelves.net
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George Torma
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| Posted: Sat 15 Jul, 2006 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| Al Muckart wrote: | | George Torma wrote: | As far as i know, viking and celtic scabbards were made of lots of different tipes of wood, from pinewood to oak. The type was implicitly defined by what the fighter could afford .
For a replica, I would go for oak. It is quite affordable, easy to work with, and rather durable. |
Be very careful using oak for any purpose where it's going to be in contact with expensive pieces of steel. Oak, even seasoned oak, is chock full of tannic acid which does not play nicely with iron or steel fittings.
You know how on old floorboards you see black marks around all the nail heads? That's iron oxide from the nails reacting with the tannins in the wood. Same principle can be used to make a very fast black dye for oak-tanned leather. |
Thanks for the advice. Maybe properly stabilized wood and wool lining inside can help this problem. I've been working with oak for some time, and I'm quite pleased with it. If you make it well, it will be nearly indestructable  .
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Al Muckart
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| Posted: Sat 15 Jul, 2006 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| George Torma wrote: |
| Al Muckart wrote: | | Be very careful using oak for any purpose where it's going to be in contact with expensive pieces of steel. Oak, even seasoned oak, is chock full of tannic acid which does not play nicely with iron or steel fittings.. |
Thanks for the advice. Maybe properly stabilized wood and wool lining inside can help this problem. I've been working with oak for some time, and I'm quite pleased with it. If you make it well, it will be nearly indestructable . |
Oh yes, it's certainly a nice strong wood and if it's not in direct contact with ferrous metals, e.g, as you say with wool lining between the wood and the metal it should be fine.
I've never worked with it in a scabbard context, how do you find it in terms of grain follow when carving etc?
--
Al.
http://wherearetheelves.net
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Matthew Amt
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| Posted: Sat 15 Jul, 2006 9:51 am Post subject: |
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I made a Brone Age scabbard from oak, and it was kind of a pain.
http://www.larp.com/hoplite/NBsword10.jpg
I found it hard to carve a straight line due to the distinct grain. And THEN I found out that oak would turn my blade green, so I lined the scabbard with linen. Does look good, though! Maple is nicer to work with, in my limited experience. Hazel seems to be mentioned for scabbards and hilt parts, from what I've seen, though I've never had any to try. Walnut is wonderful, but it might be too soft for a scabbard.
Have to say that I doubt that the wood used would depend on what the owner could afford. If you have enough money for a sword and all those snazzy scabbard fittings, the cost of the best wood will be insignificant!
The Nydam finds sure are fabulous! Thanks for posting the photos.
Matthew
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George Torma
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| Posted: Sat 15 Jul, 2006 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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If it comes to straight lines, it is always a real fuss to carve wood with hand in my opinion  . Grain structure is quite fine to me anyway, Mathew's difficulties could come from the wrong direction of the grain (in his otherwise nice work  ). I've heard very good things about maple, but it can be quite difficult to get. However, I have some walnut at home, so I plan to make a scabbard from it  .
I do not agree with the opinion that sword scabbard were always made from the best material. In some caltic finds I know about, scabbards were made from pinewood, so maybe the warrior did not have enough money for a well made one. Maybe he spent all his money to the sword  . To be serious, I think that local smiths, who could not make quality swords, did not care about the material of their scabbards. Or the master who made them. Anyway, does anybody know, who made scabbards in the Dark Age ?
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sat 15 Jul, 2006 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Matthew Amt wrote: | I made a Brone Age scabbard from oak, and it was kind of a pain.
http://www.larp.com/hoplite/NBsword10.jpg
I found it hard to carve a straight line due to the distinct grain. And THEN I found out that oak would turn my blade green, so I lined the scabbard with linen. Does look good, though! Maple is nicer to work with, in my limited experience. Hazel seems to be mentioned for scabbards and hilt parts, from what I've seen, though I've never had any to try. Walnut is wonderful, but it might be too soft for a scabbard.
Have to say that I doubt that the wood used would depend on what the owner could afford. If you have enough money for a sword and all those snazzy scabbard fittings, the cost of the best wood will be insignificant!
The Nydam finds sure are fabulous! Thanks for posting the photos.
Matthew |
If you are using black walnut for a scabbard I would suggest that you make sure you line it with something. Someone some years ago over at SFI made a blackwalnut scabbard and it had some serious and immediate (like overnight) effects on his blade. As I recall it turned it a brown color and required rather a bit of polishing to make it shine again. I too have read that migration era scabbards were made primarily of hazel. Personally I use poplar or linden although I have seen maple scabbards that seemed to have no ill effects on the blade inside.
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TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Matthew Amt
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| Posted: Sun 16 Jul, 2006 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| George Torma wrote: | | I do not agree with the opinion that sword scabbard were always made from the best material. In some caltic finds I know about, scabbards were made from pinewood, so maybe the warrior did not have enough money for a well made one. Maybe he spent all his money to the sword . To be serious, I think that local smiths, who could not make quality swords, did not care about the material of their scabbards. |
Oh, I agree that the ancients didn't always use the best materials. What I meant was that even though they apparently knew what the best wood for a scabbard was, it didn't bother them to use something else. I just don't think that cost was a factor. There may have been considerations that we don't recognize--things that seem very important to us were not always their only concern.
Glad you like my scabbard! It was my first attempt with oak, and I was trying to do it all with hand tools. After a while of my knife and chisel skipping over the hard parts of the grain with hardly any effect and then gouging into the softer bits, I got frustrated and grabbed my Dremel! Still don't have enough patience in my toolbox...
Matthew
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 17 Jul, 2006 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| George Torma wrote: | | I do not agree with the opinion that sword scabbard were always made from the best material. In some caltic finds I know about, scabbards were made from pinewood, so maybe the warrior did not have enough money for a well made one. |
Well, it depends on what you define as the best material. I know that hazel seemed to have been the most popular wood for bronze age scabbards, where they were used to stiffen them. Hazel is very easy to carve, strong, flexible and light. Some pinewoods may have very similar properties. At least yew, not a true pine wood, would have very similar properties, only it splits a little easier (advantage during the making, but makes the scabbard more fragile). Oak, while a hard and durable wood, is rather unsuitable for scabbards IMO. It splits far to easily (a thin scabbard you'd probably destroy by squeezing it), and like mentioned above is rather harmeful to the metal. I've also found it much more difficult to carve using chisels, so making thin slats is a lot more tricky. So far I have to agree with the bronze age people, that hazel appears to be the best material for scabbards of the woods that were easily available to them. So it doesn't surprize me that Russ mentions this was still the case for migration era scabbards.
N.b. I've taken some photos of an excellent preserved leather wrapped migration era scabbard, which I'll be posting soon (when I remember to put them on my memory stick )
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 18 Jul, 2006 1:07 am Post subject: |
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And here it is as promised. It's a sword/scabbard that's part of the Krefeld museum collection in Germany. It dates to the mid 5th century.
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