Help Me decide.....Please -- myArmoury.com

Jared Binder · Posted: Sun 02 Jul, 2006 11:22 am Post subject: Help Me decide.....Please

O.K. fellow gladiophiles....

After saving for 2yrs. and drooling almost daily over the gorgeous stuff on the Albion website, I am finally ready to add one of Albion's fine NG swords to my collection. However I am really having trouble deciding which one I want to bring home first, and as it may be another 2yrs. before I can afford another I want to get it right, so opinions will be appreciated.

I am into the Roman period pretty heavily and also do not yet have a classic High Middle Ages sword in my collection (which currently consists of: Bugei PC "Wave" katana, A&A 3-ringed Italian rapier, and a ATrim short fantasy leafblade), so these are the candidates:

Albion NG Allectus
Albion NG Knight
Albion NG Squire

Since my last purchase was the ATrim short leafblade, I'm leaning heavily towards either the Knight or the Squire as not having a true Medieval sword in my collection yet is really starting to get to me.

I LOVE the blade geometry of the Squire... the reinforced point is sooo sexy, but the review of the Knight by Patrick Kelley is so glowing, the cross on the Knight is a bit more graceful than the Squire and the PoB of the Knight is a full inch or more closer in than the Squire.

Handling is perhaps the key deciding factor for me... I want something lively in the hand yet authoritative in the cut and able to deliver a nasty thrust. It really comes down to either the Knight or the Squire.

Any opinions to help me decide are Eek!

greatly apprreciated.

B. Stark · Industry Professional

Hmmm...Deciding between the Squire and the Knight. That's a tough nut there. IIRC, both are somewhat similiar in handling. The Squire definitley has more point oriented control and thrusting ability. The knight, obviously, has more authority in the cut. I personally prefer XIV and XVI's (both tweener types of more dedicated cutters and thrusters). More of a jack of all trades type swords compared to say XIII's and XV's. XII's seem to have this design aspect though more focused to cutting, more of a 30/70 aspect. While the XVI seems to be a straight 50/50, between cut and thrust.

As far as the hilts are concerned, the Squire may seem plainer than the faceted Knight but there is something to be said for the subtlety of the Squires thinner pommel. Aesthetics can be very subjective though. Between the two the Squire has a more modern fast paced look than the Knight, to me at least. Plus, don't forget the multiple risers on the Squire's grip. It's the only Albion sword with this feature. A very positive gripping feature.

Hope this contributes positively to your decision.

BS

Addison C. de Lisle · Posted: Sun 02 Jul, 2006 11:49 am Post subject:

I like both the Squire and the Knight, but if I had to make a choice right now I'd go for the Knight...I think... Laughing Out Loud

Roger Hooper · Posted: Sun 02 Jul, 2006 11:49 am Post subject:

If you ;want the classic Medieval sword, then get the Knight. If you do a search on this site, you will find that the consensus is that it is one of Albions most successful designs.

Craig Peters · Posted: Sun 02 Jul, 2006 11:52 am Post subject:

The Knight is a better choice for a high medieval sword. But I'd also take a second look at the Ritter and some of the Type Xa swords like the Senlac. These are also high medieval weapons (assuming you include the 12th century as "high medieval) whereas a type XII like the Knight was more of a 13th century weapon.

Kenton Spaulding · Posted: Sun 02 Jul, 2006 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: Help Me decide.....Please

I don't think you can go wrong buddy, I think I prefer the Squire, but this might just be because as the Albion type XII's go I really love the Laird which takes my focus away from the Knight as a potential option for myself. I guess it comes down to if you want a little bit earlier or later sword, and also there is this:

Jared Smith · Posted: Sun 02 Jul, 2006 7:46 pm Post subject:

I can vouch for the Knight as being very satisfying to own and hold. It is sort of a hybrid design. You can probably pass it off as 13th or early 14th century. I have never held one of the Squires. I also am sort of wishing that I either had the Sovereign or Sheriff now to definately cover earlier periods.

Edward Hitchens · Posted: Sun 02 Jul, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject:

I've handled the Knight and Squire (though not with the two together) and I couldn't put down the Knight. Surprised

While both fit neatly within the Medieval era, I think the Knight encompasses the entire period better than the Squire; in other words, a Type XII could/would have been found from the time of the First Crusade (1099) up thru and including the start of the Hundred Years War (1337) give or take half-a-century or so. I would place the Type XVI Squire later in the period, perhaps inching into the Renaissance. But don't forget that Oakeshott's typology does not categorize the blades by date, but rather by design (I don't wanna get too carried away with that without going off the topic).

If it's the archetype of the Medieval sword you seek, look no further than the Knight although the Squire is not to be dismissed. Happy

Joe Fults · Posted: Sun 02 Jul, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject:

What Ed said! Big Grin

Jeremy V. Krause · Posted: Mon 03 Jul, 2006 10:36 am Post subject:

If you are looking at the time period question I must say that a sword like the knight would not have been seen during the time of the first crusade. The earliest this type of blade should be dated is around 1250 and the Squire around 1300.

Another thing- the term "high" middle ages in most circles refers to the period 1050-1300 and coincides with the era of the height of organized feudalism and zenith of the Church's power. Around 1300 we see the beginning of the guild system and the emergence of the bougois class.

Jeremy

Edward Hitchens · Posted: Mon 03 Jul, 2006 11:33 am Post subject:

Craig Peters · Posted: Mon 03 Jul, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject:

Craig Peters · Posted: Mon 03 Jul, 2006 2:15 pm Post subject:

Also, though this is getting off topic, I tend to consider the high middle ages to be from sometime around 1100 to about 1300. The reason for this is that the 12th century is (obviously) the time when the twelfth century "renaissance", a time of cultural and educational flourishing, took place, and thus it seems more appropriate to place the end of the 11th century in the "early middle ages", with the twelfth century renaissance representing the early parts of the high middle ages.

Gordon Clark · Posted: Mon 03 Jul, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject:

I have not handled either, but I have a Laird that I really like, so I would vote Knight.
I don't think you can go wrong with the two though.

Good Luck!
Gordon

Steve Grisetti · Posted: Mon 03 Jul, 2006 4:44 pm Post subject:

Well, bless you. I would find the choice between Knight and Squire very difficult. The Knight is better for the earlier part of the era in question, and I do prefer the cross to that of the Squire. However, I like the reinforced point on the Squire and the risers in its grip. What a quandry. I guess what makes the choice difficult is that they are both good choices. Good luck!

George Hill · Posted: Mon 03 Jul, 2006 7:00 pm Post subject:

Go with the Knight... Then there will be plenty of Squires left over for ME when I have money again.

Jeremy V. Krause · Posted: Tue 04 Jul, 2006 7:18 am Post subject:

Jared Binder · Posted: Tue 04 Jul, 2006 10:41 am Post subject: Thanks for the opinions....

Thanks for the informed opinions.... I have decided to go with the Squire and contacted Albion yesterday via e-mail. I guess what I am looking for was embodied in the Squire's blade geometry more than any other factor... This will also be my first sword with a fuller ( my A&A Italian Rapier has a tiny fuller, but it's so small and narrow it doesn't count) and I LOVE the grip on the Squire. I am also trying to put together a period costume (slowly as the good stuff is pricey) for the Hundred Years War period and am sure that the Squire is a better fit for this period, or at least the early years of this period. So, fuller, blade geometry, period fit and the fact that I wanted a one-hand 'working man's' sword, meant to be wielded on foot helped tip the balance for me. I have gone with the campaign worn light brown for the grip/scabbard/belt for an authentic man-at-arms feel. The other sword I love (perhaps for the latter part of the Hundred Years War) is the Kingmaker, which I can't wait to see finished. When I can next afford to buy a sword (probably in a couple more yrs. : ( )
I wish to make that sword mine... and would love to have that one with a fancy period scabbard to reflect its noble status.

I am sure the Knight is a fantastic weapon but for now the Squire is the sword for me.

Thanks again for all your help and the debate over the time frame for the Knight is fascinating. I would have to agree that the Knight's blade and guard would place it no earlier than 1250 and would likely have still been in service by the beginning of the Hundred Years War, but as we see in so many period paintings from the time the estoc and type XVI blades like the Squire must have been a foot soldier's weapon of choice for it's better armor piercing qualities. I think however that a mounted knight, who would almost always swing his sword from horseback rather than time an aimed blow at an exposed joint, would have preffered a stronger cutter like the Knight when mounted. Just a thought.

Steve Grisetti · Posted: Tue 04 Jul, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Thanks for the opinions....

Felix Wang · Posted: Tue 04 Jul, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject:

For a HYW outfit, the type XIV is definitely the preferable choice; if your interest was the Crusades, the Knight would be the way to go.