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Mathias Andersson
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 Posted: Fri 26 May, 2006 12:50 pm Post subject: A little helmet question |
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Hi all, i was just wondering what would be the choice of helmet for a late 15 centuary german soldier.
The moust i have seen is sallet´s but i was wondering if it would work with a Barbuta?
Thanks in advance/ Mathias
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Chuck Russell
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| Posted: Fri 26 May, 2006 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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depends on where you are. you really dont see that many barbutas outside of italy in paintings. mostly sallets and wide brimed kettlehats.
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Fri 26 May, 2006 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe some early Morion, Cabasset, Burgonet and various types of Kettle Hats.
Barbutta until maybe 1480 and mostly only in Italy.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Hisham Gaballa
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Marc-Antoine Jean
Location: Canada Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Sat 27 May, 2006 4:19 am Post subject: |
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My choice is the sallet. With that you'll be right in the period and it is a really confortable helmet. But be sure you choose a german sallet, not an italian one. it is simple, the italian one has a shorter tail and has a frontal piece attached to the peak.
You should better ask Francois L'Archevêque about that. he knows mostly everything you should know about 15th century helms.... He will probably read this thread anyway, so we'll wait to know what he has to say (O:
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Allan Senefelder
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sat 27 May, 2006 7:34 am Post subject: |
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Given the large amount of armour made in Italy for export, so much so that theres a distinction made for "gothicized" Italian armours as being for the export market rather than for domestic consumption I wouldn't think that an Italian made sallet is out of the question especially in southern Germany.
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Wolfgang Armbruster
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| Posted: Sat 27 May, 2006 11:55 am Post subject: |
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A Barbuta is not present in any German period artwork. Neither Dürer, Burgkmaier, Altdorfer nor Cranach show a single Barbuta. I've never seen a Barbuta outside an Italian context.
As already mentioned Sallets and Kettlehats (sometimes these looked more like sallets since a lot of them feature eyeslits) were the preferred helmets of that time.
I don't think you'd see people wearing morions or even burgonets. These are definitely post 1500 helmets, aren't they?
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Mathias Andersson
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| Posted: Sat 27 May, 2006 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the answers guys, I have decided to go for a german sallet 
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Bruno Giordan
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| Posted: Sat 27 May, 2006 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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german soldier german sallet.
That's so easy ...
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Jean Thibodeau
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| Posted: Sat 27 May, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Wolfgang Armbruster wrote: | A Barbuta is not present in any German period artwork. Neither Dürer, Burgkmaier, Altdorfer nor Cranach show a Barbuta.
I've never seen a Barbuta outside an Italian context.
As already mentioned Sallets and Kettlehats (sometimes these looked more like sallets since a lot of them feature eyeslits) were the preffered helmets of that time.
I don't think you'd see people wearing morions or even burgonets. These are definitely post 1500 helmets, aren't they? |
You may be right about those being more 16th century but if we see some very early in the 16th century there might be some in the very very late 15th. But the best bet is still a Sallet or a Kettle hat.
Some Kettle Hats do seem to have down turned sided and upturned front and backs with small back to front crest / ridges that look to me like early versions of Morions or Kettle Hats that if slightly modified / exagerated would be true Morions.
The Eye Slot Kettle Hats are like a close cousins of some forms of Sallets: The shapes of one influencing the other maybe as they both evolved at the same time. An Eye Slot Kettle Hat would seem like the best choice to me for the period and region.
But François L' Archeveque opinion would have a lot more weight than mine as he is well immersed in this period.
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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François L'Archevêque
Location: Quebec, Canada Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sat 27 May, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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I think these kinds of helmets are goods for a swiss or south german soldier :
-German visored sallet
-Italian export sallet
-Italian open sallet(almost a barbuta)
-Eyes slits kettle hat
-Kettle hat
-Kettle hat(with almost a german sallet's tail)
-Skull cap(with a very little tail)
I saw all theses helmets on german and swiss contemporary drawings. If someone have pictures of the Schilling chronicles, it would be helpfull.
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Wolfgang Armbruster
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| Posted: Sun 28 May, 2006 2:09 am Post subject: |
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Good call on the Luzerner Schilling!
Here's a a picture:
There's a very good website on the Swabian War, unfortunately only in German but there are lots of scans from the chronicle mentioned above. Just click through the guide by starting here:
http://www.1499.ch/ausstellung/thema01.html
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Hisham Gaballa
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| Posted: Sun 28 May, 2006 4:09 am Post subject: |
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| Wolfgang Armbruster wrote: | Good call on the Luzerner Schilling!
Here's a a picture:
There's a very good website on the Swabian War, unfortunately only in German but there are lots of scans from the chronicle mentioned above. Just click through the guide by starting here:
http://www.1499.ch/ausstellung/thema01.html |
This is where babelfish comes in useful:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr
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This is a standard topic
