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John H





Joined: 08 May 2006

Posts: 60

PostPosted: Mon 08 May, 2006 2:00 pm    Post subject: How were polearms historically used in formations?         Reply with quote

Hi all. This is my first post, although I have lurked in these forums for a while. I am an aspiring novelist and am trying to improve my knowledge of medieval warfare. The one area that I have had trouble finding good information is in the use of polearms on the battlefield. What formations proved most effective in given situations, how the weapons were handled, etc. Any information, or even speculation, would be greatly appreciated!

If anyone knows of a good online resource or previous thread that addresses these questions, please pass it along.

Thanks in advance!
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Benjamin H. Abbott




Location: New Mexico
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PostPosted: Mon 08 May, 2006 4:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What kind of polearms? Halberds and bills, for instance, were used both with and without pikes. In either case, the basic idea was the same: hit the other guy with blade. Period artwork often shows the these types of weapons held overhead, presumably for making powerful descending blows. In a tight press this may have been the best or only way to make a blows. Sir John Smythe condemned Italian-style halberds as too long and too focused on the thrust. He wrote that such polearms became unwieldly once ranks of men came together. Here is how he described how he thought halberdiers should be armed and used:

Quote:
...but then is the time that the ranckes of fhort Halbards, or Battleaxes of fiue foote and a halfe long, with ftrong fhort poynts, fhort staues, and long edges in the hands of luftie foldiers that doo followe the firft ranckes of Piquers at the heeles, both with blowe at the head, and thruft at the face, doo with puiffant and mightie hand, work wonderfull effect, and carrie all to the ground.


George Silver also thought halberds/bills should be between five and six feet long, and considered them superior to longer polearms in the field.

During the age of pikes, halberds and such were also used to guard ensigns and fight anywhere space was too restricted for the pike.


Last edited by Benjamin H. Abbott on Mon 08 May, 2006 9:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Alexander Ren




Location: Florida
Joined: 18 Apr 2005

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PostPosted: Mon 08 May, 2006 6:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is an old topic that started concerning Zwiehanders but changed into a discussion about polearms.
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...idenhander

Alex

"The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle."
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Chris Last




Location: Janesville, WI
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PostPosted: Mon 08 May, 2006 7:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chivalry Bookshelf's SPADA 2 has a section by Tom Leoni that covers the use of the Italian Partisan. I was one of many that took his class at the last Western Martial Arts Workshop in Racine, WI and the work he has done so far is very interesting.

Tom's got a website for his school that has some good info: http://www.salvatorfabris.com/Home.shtml

" Hang fires are all fun and games untill someone gets their eye poked out... by charging calvary." - J.Shoemaker

Chris Last
GSM-Bristol
http://www.gsmbristol.org
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Felix Wang




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PostPosted: Mon 08 May, 2006 7:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Pikes, of course, are a subject unto themselves. For the others, it would seem that two moves would recommend themselves when in tight formation: using the thrust, and downwards cutting blows.
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Alexander Ren




Location: Florida
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PostPosted: Mon 08 May, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I forgot about this earlier but you may also be able to glean some useful info from this highlight on the Swiss.
http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_armies_swiss.html

Alex

"The more you sweat in practice, the less you bleed in battle."
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Mon 08 May, 2006 7:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Felix Wang wrote:
Pikes, of course, are a subject unto themselves. For the others, it would seem that two moves would recommend themselves when in tight formation: using the thrust, and downwards cutting blows.


Tight formations I would say the same applies for Twohanded swords: Trusts and downward cutting blows.
Sort of referring back to that topic that started about twohanders and ended up dealing with pollarms.

( Keeping it short as a lot of that discussion is covered in that topic. )
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...idenhander

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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John H





Joined: 08 May 2006

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PostPosted: Mon 08 May, 2006 7:51 pm    Post subject: Thanks         Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. I have a number of historical fighting manuals, but none really address the use of halberds and the like in close formation.

Benjamin's thoughts coincide with with my assumptions. Basically that spears, pikes, and other pointed weapons would simply be set to receive charges and otherwise thrust at the enemy. Also, the axe-bladed weapons would need to be used in a downward chopping motion since there would be little room to do anything else in the press of combat.
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Elling Polden




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PostPosted: Tue 09 May, 2006 1:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My group practices skrimish/group fighting. Granted, within a pretty limited rules system, but though. I usually fight with a glaive, with a 8 foot shaft. Most of the opposition is shield/sword, Shield/spear, or two handed spears.

A couple of observations on Applied Polearm, adjusted for real world factors;

A striking polearm, like the helbard, would probably start up head high, shaft down. What happens next is determined by what they are facing. Against spears or pikes, you deflect the attackers spear shaft, and strike when he comes into distance.
Yes, this means that you are in deep do-do if 2+ enemy spearmen target you. But then your friends should have easier targets. (little comfort to you as this might be).

Against a formation with shorter weapons you would strike, then maintain a low stabbing or striking guard to keep the enemy at range, while the second rank grinds them down.
If you do get back to the high guard, you would use the shaft as a blunt spear until you get a good opening to strike.

Your main targets are not the guy directly in front of you, but the ones one, two, or three meters down the line.
You keep the guy facing you at bay, then, when you see a opportunity, land a swift blow(or stab) in the head of someone that isn't looking at you.
Get back to you guard right quick, before some enemy sees you of guard, and does the same to you.
Repeat until out of enemies.

One of the best thing that can happen to you, is geting on the flank of an enemy, close to your max striking range. You can then land a blow towards his back or neck, that is effectively coming in behind him. Chances are he will not even see it until it hits.
People have a "personal bubble" of about 1-2meters. If someone enters this space, even from behind, they will notice it most of the time. The polearm, on the other hand, is so long that it does not trigger this "alert." Thus, a single flanking polearm can wreak havoc on a single file enemy, because the enemy has no other warning than his friend dying beside him, which he might not even notice before he is hit as well. (I have done this... It is glorious.... :P)

In tight formations, the sheer mass of poles can become a real hassle; they get in the way of you prize targets down the line. On the bright side, they help keep YOU safer.
One cheap trick is to "sneak" your polearm up along the shaft of one enemy, and then deliver a "back paddle" against another, when the head of your polearm is effectively next to or beside him.
These attacks can produce conciderable force, and can easily be targeted at the head or neck. A single edge polearm, like the glaive, would need to be turned around first, a helbard or bill could deliver it with the back spike..

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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John H





Joined: 08 May 2006

Posts: 60

PostPosted: Tue 09 May, 2006 10:33 pm    Post subject: Perfect         Reply with quote

That was exactly the type of info I was looking for. I would also love any other anecdotes or tidbits anyone else can share.

Elling, great stuff! Please check your inbox.

Thanks!
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Steven H




Location: Boston
Joined: 10 May 2006

Posts: 545

PostPosted: Wed 10 May, 2006 6:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have seen multiple presentations by the Higgins Armoury in Worcester MA, on a variety of topics including the use of halberds, and this is what I've gleaned:

The hooked nature of the halberd allows a variety of nifty winding type techniques to be used against opponents especially those with halberds. The hook can be used to catch an opponents hook or guard and pull them onto the spear point. It can be used for winding techniques that would pin the weapon in place and allow an unobstructed follow-up attack.

The weapon would normally be held straight out at head height with the axe blade up and the spear point, pointing at the enemy, like an ochs stance or else in a pflug stance, both of these are with the right foot forward. The Halberdier can step forward to make a downward strike.

When the combat breaks down into a general melee, as opposed to rank & file formation fighting then the halberd can be wielded similarly to a staff, quickly striking or feinting with either end, tripping or sweeping an opponents legs and longsword -type winding maneuvers.
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