MRL German Halberd On Closeout! -- myArmoury.com

Sean Flynt · Posted: Thu 04 May, 2006 12:21 pm Post subject: MRL German Halberd On Closeout!

If you've ever been interested in this piece, get it now for $99!

http://www.museumreplicas.com/webstore/eCat/C...oulge.aspx

If I didn't already have a similar halberd project in the works, I'd be all over this deal. Cheap way to get into polearms.

Joe Loder · Posted: Thu 04 May, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject:

Aaargh! Why must these sales always come around when I'm broke?! I've been coveting this piece for quite a while. Anyone here own one?

Sean Flynt · Posted: Fri 05 May, 2006 6:38 am Post subject:

I've handled one, and I really liked it, although I felt that it could benefit from a longer haft (to make it halberd length rather than poleaxe length). On the other hand, it's well-configured for a poleaxe. I handled MRL's Swiss Axe at the same time, and although I liked it better as a poleaxe I think these weapons are apples & oranges--the Swiss Axe seemed to be of a more appropriate length. I know of one case in which the haft of one of these MRL German Halberd's broke on impact, but that doesn't cause me any great concern. Hafts broke, historically, and this particular design appears to call for an especially narrow haft at the socket--perhaps this is why originals of this type are relatively rare. It may have proven to be too susceptible to damage.

There are so few originals of this type out there that it's easy to spot where this piece departs from historical design. In terms of overall look, it's pretty convincing. However, the blades of originals have a more pronounced "belly" and narrower top half. I've seen what appears to be two construction methods in originals--in one, the socket, spike and langets are one piece and the blade another. The blade passes through the socket and is peened on the back side of the socket below the spike. It looks to me like there's another method, in which the blade and back spike are one piece, the socket and langets another. In that case, it may be that the blade/spike piece is inserted between halves of the socket and forge welded closed (see example below).

The MRL construction looks to be closer to the first method described above, with spike, socket and langets of one piece and the "tang" of the blade penetrating the socket and rivetted in place through the socket and haft (maybe welded as well?). So, it departs from the first method by not passing all the way through the socket or being peened.

I have a non-MRL (?) version of this head in which the blade is either welded directly to the socket or the socket and blade are of one piece. The blade does not penetrate the socket. So, be aware that there are knockoffs out there which may be cheaper but are well-built and actually look slightly more historically accurate even though they're actually a little farther away from the known historical construction techniques. I should point out that the construction of both the MRL and my no-name head are historically possible/plausible.

A note on the decoration: I wonder if all of the originals came from the same armourer. All those I've seen have the groups of three circular piercings and the trefoil/cross piercing. It's easy to add these piercings, as I'll soon demonstrate in this forum.

It's been several years since I handled the MRL piece, but I think it's a steal at $99. For comparison, I recently paid $80, head-only but express shipping, for my rusty halberd of similar design (an even better bargain, in my view, because it facilitated mounting on a halberd-length haft).

This type of halberd hits the block at Hermann Historica from time-to-time and seems to be consistently identified as south German, ca. 1500.

In addition to the one shown below, there's another in HH in the albums on this site:

http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/displayimage....amp;pos=11

See how flimsy the construction looks? See how narrow the haft is? I think these may be the best arguments for this being a poleaxe rather than a halberd, but one of the HH examples was hafted to halberd length and I find that my mounting of halberd length feels better than MRL's shorter haft.

George Hill · Posted: Fri 05 May, 2006 6:53 am Post subject:

Say Sean, do you have any information on what the origanal shaft length was thought to be?

I'm sitting here wondering if it was intended to be a pollax length weapon in it's day rather then a true Halberd.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Fri 05 May, 2006 7:20 am Post subject:

It's a tricky distinction. The relatively light construction, long, narrow backspike/pick and strong stabbing point seem to say "poleaxe". The head you very kindly sent to me balances nicely at a little over the 7' mark overall, but it also seems to be slightly more robust than the MRL (bigger socket=bigger haft). So, the MRL may indeed be the best length for its construction. Again, I was comparing it directly to the very light and agile Swiss Axe, so my view may have been a bit warped. That was also back before I knew anything about polearms.

The difficult question is--at what point does a poleaxe become a halberd? It's partly about the form of the head, but also a question of length. The difference between mine and the MRL is perhaps 1.5-2', but I'd call mine a halberd and the MRL a poleaxe. Halberds shown in period artwork (even by the same artist) show wild variation in halberd length even when the heads are identical. Some are clearly of classic halberd form but are the length of what I consider to be a poleaxe. Waldman shows a weapon of the length I have mine (and may be intended to show a weapon of this very type,) but he identifies it as the German equivalent of a poleaxe. This weapon type may be a hybrid or just a neither-here-nor-there compromise that didn't catch on for various reasons. Since Landesknecht supplied their own arms, each may have simply requested custom-fit haft length or modified standard haft length to suit his own physical build or specific combat role. Seems to me that it wouldn't be particularly effective to have a line of men armed with halberds of varying length, and groups of Landesknechts seem to be most often depicted as having weapons of identical length. Maybe guards, noncoms or officers who didn't carry spears preferred a shorter halberd instead. Whatever...I think it's one of the most attractive halberd/axe forms of the period.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Fri 05 May, 2006 7:35 am Post subject:

For example (NOTE: These men are identified as having different roles among the Landsknecht):

Sean Flynt · Posted: Fri 05 May, 2006 10:24 am Post subject:

Here's another, from a PDF catalog of the Higgins Armory Museum. This one seems to have a replacement haft and there is some doubt about the weapon's authenticity (officially, it's listed as 16th or 19th c.) But it looks like one of the triangular flukes on the back of the blade has been broken off and ground down, leaving only one of the circular holes from that grouping. That's a long way to go for a forgery. Alexi Gorunov has reported on an almost identical halberd in the HAM (with all its flukes but also with a "step" and single hole just down from the tip,) identified as late 15th c. or, again, possibly 19th. The (old replacement) haft on that one makes the weapon 90" long overall (7.5',) which is the same approx. length as mine.
Finally, notice that the interesting axe below has some of the features of the halberd. I wonder about the connection....

Carl Goff · Posted: Sat 06 May, 2006 10:36 pm Post subject:

I am not, by God, missing out on this one.

*checks debit card balance*

And that's clear.

WOOHOO!!! I've always wanted this thing!

Edward Hitchens · Posted: Sun 07 May, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject:

Tom Carr · Posted: Sun 14 May, 2006 7:49 pm Post subject:

I got in on that action and mine showed up friday. It seems very solid and the haft doesnt show any knots. It seems well balanced for its purpose, and changing postion and striking can be acomplished with compartive ease.
I too plan to take the same path as Sean and antique it. Ive almost bought this piece four or five times and when I saw it on sale I simply couldnt resist. All in all, I think I came out well on this purchace!

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 16 May, 2006 8:21 am Post subject:

Here's how my project turned out:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=6836

Christopher Finneman · Posted: Tue 16 May, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject:

Would anyone be willing to buy me one of these. and I send a check to them?
I love these to death had one a year back and sold it cheap at a garge sale.
Anyone wanna help?

Joe Fults · Posted: Wed 17 May, 2006 7:58 am Post subject:

Christopher Finneman · Posted: Wed 17 May, 2006 9:01 am Post subject:

Wish I was Im a serious as a heartattack.
But it was just a suggestion.

Christopher Finneman · Posted: Sun 28 May, 2006 8:50 pm Post subject:

Well a good friend got this for me bday present seems really good quality. The wood seems a lil narrow or thing near the top by the blade and the blade is opne seperate piece. Im thinking of just welding this all into one piece. just worried of weakening the meatal. But has anyone ever beat on this stock and how do they hold up?
Id give this a 8 out of a 10