Blades of the Renaissance -- myArmoury.com

Matthew D M · Posted: Thu 16 Mar, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: Blades of the Renaissance

Couple of things-

#1. Which blades were used/popular during the Renaissance (target dates Late 1400s to 1600s)?

I am getting more and more interested in historical accuracy.

My current favorite is a langes or grosse messer. I've always liked single edge pieces and I like the design of the weapon.

#2. What was a typical side arm to messer?

Alexander Hinman · Posted: Thu 16 Mar, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Blades of the Renaissance

Matthew D M · Posted: Thu 16 Mar, 2006 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Blades of the Renaissance

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

In order to define what was popular, we must narrow the question down. What reigion of Europe is of interest to you? Many places in Europe were slow to adopt new technologies while others were very speicific in their regional preferences.

The timeframe of 1400-1699 is an absolutely huge span of time and happens to be amongst the most active period of change of arms design. We'd really have to get much, much more specific than this. This is perhaps the biggest problem with this question: it's just too large of a timeframe. If you narrow it down to 50 years, we could all land on at least a short list of answers.

Further, one would need to discuss class: what was popular for a peasant was quite different than that of a footsoldier, knight, civilian merchant or scholar, noble, etc. What was popular on foot was quite different than arms designed for cavalry, tournament, or civilian defense.

There are simply too much variables to give an answer to such a broad question. A better question might be, "What was popular for a German man-at-arms, circa 1525?" Crazy as it might sound, even such a question would not yield a simple and concise answer.

In terms of a pictorial timeline, you might get some value out of this article: Forms of European Edged Weaponry, but your answers really would come from reading multiple sources such as the articles in our Features Section or in the books in our Reading List.

Matthew D M · Posted: Thu 16 Mar, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject:

Nathan,

thanks for the response. I know it would be easier to narrow the timeline, but I wanted the broad range.

But, if I had to go narrow, I'd go 1480-1530 german middle class to peasant (since I want a messer as my main weapon).

Wolfgang Armbruster · Posted: Fri 17 Mar, 2006 3:30 am Post subject:

I'm surely no expert, but It hink I can tell you a few things about this period.
The interesting thing is that culture in general was changing very fast at this time - especially fashion hadn't changed that much for a long time.
As for weapons:
At the end of the 15th century the normal cross-hilted longsword was still in use, but often with a curved s-shaped crossguard. People also started to add little bars and rings to the hilt for better hand-protection, which eventually resulted in those awesome looking complex-hilted longswords. The blades changed as well. Pointy and rather stiff blades of (hollow-ground) diamond cross-section remained popular (XVa, XVIII).
IIRC blades of flat hexagonal cross-section became popular in the 16th century as well (Type XIX).
In general hilts started to become more complex offering more hand-protection. A lot of different blade-designs were in use.
So, I'll stop before I start telling nonsense Happy

Hisham Gaballa · Posted: Fri 17 Mar, 2006 4:34 am Post subject:

Can I add something on to Matthew's question please?

What types of swords would have been used by soldiers (pikemen, musketeers and cavalry) in western Europe, i.e. Britain, France and Germany from about 1620-1650 AD, i.e. the period of the 30 years war and the English Civil war. Films like the 3 musketeers etc would have us believe everyone used rapiers, but I was under the impression that the rapier was primarily a civilian weapon.

Wolfgang Armbruster · Posted: Fri 17 Mar, 2006 6:32 am Post subject:

Daniel Staberg · Posted: Fri 17 Mar, 2006 1:47 pm Post subject:

Sean Flynt · Posted: Fri 17 Mar, 2006 2:06 pm Post subject:

The messer is primarily, though not exclusively, a civilian weapon, as I understand it. In civilian use it is the only weapon one might generally carry, apart from a staff, perhaps. It might have a small knife, skewer or fork in its scabbard as well. A peasant soldier of the period would be likely to carry a pike or halberd as his primary weapon. He might carry a messer as a secondary weapon, but it seems much more common for him to carry a katzbalger or baselard. A rondel or ballock dagger would be appropriate as well.

I'll second what's already been said--there were many new types of blade in use during this period and many of the old types persisted. The question is not unlike asking what motor vehicles were in use from 1900-2006. One simply doesn't know where to begin answering the question. Eek!

Hisham Gaballa · Posted: Fri 17 Mar, 2006 2:28 pm Post subject:

Thanks Wolfgang and Daniel. Happy

That was really helpful.

Matthew D M · Posted: Fri 17 Mar, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject:

Alex B. · Posted: Fri 17 Mar, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject:

Sean Flynt · Posted: Fri 17 Mar, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject:

Matthew D M · Posted: Fri 17 Mar, 2006 8:53 pm Post subject:

Thanks again for the answers. I have actually seen those books before, so I guess it's now time to buy. I'm going more for civilian than soldier (but I guess in those times, civilians were soldiers, even when they didn't want to be).

Matthew D M · Posted: Sun 19 Mar, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject:

Just in case anyone else is interested, I found these books:

http://www.myArmoury.com/books/item.php?ASIN=0486279758

http://www.myArmoury.com/books/item.php?ASIN=0850452589

http://www.myArmoury.com/books/item.php?ASIN=1841762431