[Michael R. Black]

Hello everyone. I have been messing around a bit with a great helm I bought a while ago through the Albion Moat. I know these were usually worn with a smaller helmet underneath, or perhaps a coif plus padding. i'm wondering whether anyone on the forum has information as to how the great helm would be secured on top of everything. Was it strapped somehow, or simply placed on top? If not secured, it seems like even the lightest of blows would cause serious vision problems in the wearer due to the placement of the eye holes shifting when the great helm moves.

Anyone have suggestions?

Thanks in advance for any information,

Michael

[G. Scott H.]

I wish I could find the thread I started last year about great helm liners. I'll search a bit more and see if I can come up with it. Anyhow, the general consensus seemed to be that great helms had some type of leather liner or suspension system and chin straps riveted into them, to secure them over the arming cap, coif, etc.

[Alexi Goranov]

[G. Scott H.]

Many thanks, Alexi.

[Michael R. Black]

Thanks for the link. This helps me get an idea. Since I want to use some padding and a mail coif under it, it seems like I'd be best off with just a chin strap on the great helm to keep everything in place. Anyone have opinions regarding this?

Michael

[G. Scott H.]

[Stephen Hand]

Is there actually any evidence that chin straps were used on this sort of helm, because well fitting helms just don't need them. I've worn great helms on many occasions and been hit hard while wearing them. I have never once had a helm shift on my head. My most recently acquired helmet, the burgonet in my avatar came with a chin strap. Every time I put the helmet on I swear that I'm going to remove the strap, and I only ever did it up once. The helmet doesn't move a centimeter on my head because it's so well fitted. I got to look closely at the original it's based on after getting my replica made, and no chin strap. I can't recall seeing a chin strap on any late medieval/ renaissance helm that's designed to cover the entire head. The Metropolitan Museum has several helmets with surviving linings and no chin straps. You see them on things like sallets that don't come down over the lower part of the face and therefore need some additional attachment method, but I don't know of an example on a helmet designed to cover the whole head. So, is there evidence, or are we just making assumptions?

Cheers
Stephen

[Bill Grandy]

I'm glad you brought that up, Stephen, because it's something I've been wondering myself. I've never seen one on any helmet, though the sallet's I've seen didn't have linings in them anymore. I didn't know if they just fit that well that they didn't need straps, or if the straps had been lost through time, or some other unknown reason.

[Alexi Goranov]

[Allan Senefelder]

Bill, on sallets the two rivets on the right and left hand sides below the series of rivets for the liner are strap rivets . Sometimes these rivets are "flush riveted" and thus hard to see especially if the helmet is really patinated. The zischagge c. 1640-50 that I bought years ago as a model for the one we do had leather loops at the bottom of each cheek piece for a thong to tie the helmet under the chin as does the zischagge I currently own. The English munitions burgeonette I owned about 8 years back had the buckle remaining on one cheek plate.

[Bruno Giordan]

There is a Xv century sallet in Brescia's Marzoli museum that is still fully lined and preserves the first part of the four leather straps.

I will go there sooner or later and take pics of this and other piece of armor.

Curiously one even has difficulties going to museums that are just a gunshot away from his workplace, but this is modern era's main defect.

Spare time is for rich people only

[Addison C. de Lisle]

Does anybody know if the Arms and Armor Pembridge helm comes with or can be upgraded to include a liner?

[Nathan Robinson]