Lochbuie targaid information.. -- myArmoury.com

Patrick Maclaine · Posted: Tue 07 Feb, 2006 10:29 pm Post subject: Lochbuie targaid information..

Lochbuie targe information

Thomas McDonald · myArmoury Alumni

Hi Patrick

Do you know where this targaid currently resides ?
And are you seeking information about the back of that specific targe, or just targaid in general ?
I've got a bunch of targaid pictures in my album at this link, and alot more in my personal files !
http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/thumbnails.php?album=122

It's possible Larry Davis, who's been researching targaid for some time now, might have something on it as well !

Very nice work you did on that targe ..... is this something you do for a living, or just for the fun ?

- Mac

Patrick Maclaine · Posted: Wed 08 Feb, 2006 10:39 pm Post subject:

Hi Thomas.
I have visited your gallery of targes recently and would like to congratulate you on your excellent job.
I am an official representative of the Clan Maclaine of Lochbuie. The Chief told me that the Lochbuie targaid was stolen from Stirling Castle about 80 years ago. Since then, the destiny of the targaid is just unknown.
Yes, I am seeking information about that specific targaid as I am working on three limited editions - including one for the Chief of the Clan - Lorne Maclaine of Lochbuie-.
I do appreciate your interest and commentaries... thanks indeed!. How can I contact Larry Davies?...
I do this job for a living. I also work on sporrans and others.
I started making targes back in 1985 while living in Edinburgh... got this tuition from one of the best - if not the best- craftman working on targes for that period. I had to visit a lot of museums and galleries in order to see which way the originals were made.
I have about 20 targes in my showroom now. Here I forward you some pictures of targaidean of my own production.
Would like to hear of your opinion as I do consider you are an expert on this field.
Thanks again for your interest.
Please, be in touch.
Slainte, Pat
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Thomas McDonald · myArmoury Alumni

Hi Patrick

Again, very nice work there !

No expert here, just a fellow student in the facinating world of Arms & Armour !
Now, a few questions for ya ....

What are your pieces weighing in at ?
Do you use original construction design, with lamenated and pegged core, etc ?

Here are a few links that might be of interest to you, if you've not come across them yet !
(Larry Davis participates in a few of the SFI ones, on their Scottish Forum.)
I will private message you an e-mail address for Larry Davis, as I'm sure you'll find him quite knowledgeable !
(he recently spent 2 weeks researching targaid in Edinburgh)

Targe Construction

Some information on two original targes

More Targe info

Locations of 17th & 18th century Targes in North America

Mac's Trip to Scotland (Photos)

Targe Construction

Talk again soon, Mac

Thomas McDonald · myArmoury Alumni

I was doing a bit of reading about clanMaclaine of Lochbuie and see that a certain two-handed claymore has been missing for some time !
Wonder if this one has ever resurfaced, with its current caretaker not being aware of its connection to the clan ?
http://www.maclaineoflochbuie.com/sword.html

Interesting , Mac

Patrick Maclaine · Posted: Fri 10 Feb, 2006 9:27 pm Post subject:

After reading the article on targaid construction by James Taylor, I think we have similar opinions in what can concern with methods, materials, weighs, etc.
James have done an excellent job indeed. Larry´s targaid is just great too.
I´ve made several targes following original construction design in the past . About six years back I turned into plywood for targaid´s core.
I use to tool the hide- ( 2mm to 5mm thick). with the same tools - I think- James uses to do his tooling work.
Although I have a manual press for specific jobs, I do prefer this tedious job rather than "fancy" finish I can get from press as I like to be accurate to original targe-making techniques.
To the best of my knowledge and according to researches I have made in years, only a few targaidean were made using press method.
Some said that these - one of a kind -" targets" were made in Glasgow and the ones carrying these targes to battlefield were Scots of high range among highlanders. The average Scot could not afford to buy a targaid of this range.
I am not afraid to say that in two hundred years of tooled leather targes- ( According to official information from notes issued in that period- although of unknown sources-)- 99% of them were hand tooled ones; made by hundred craftsmen working in Scottish villages all around the Highlands and also in different cities of Scotland.
According to Logan, the first record of the leather targaid in the Act of the Scottish Parliament is dated 1456, and directs that this weapon of defense is to be " Eyther of ledder or fyrme borde, with twa bands on the bak ".
Now, about weigh of my targes: they range from 5 lbs to 7 1/2 lbs. It depends on hide thickness, quantity of bosses/ studs, back configuration, etc.
I will forward you some other pictures of tooling process. Also have more comments to share.
Hope to be of a tiny contribution with my tiny grain of sand. I´m not a wise one…(Thanks Heaven!).
Thanks Mac!... I find all the forums of great interest indeed.
Please, be in touch.
Slàinte,
Pat

Greg Griggs · Posted: Mon 13 Feb, 2006 8:22 am Post subject:

Patrick,
Those are absolutely beautiful. I've just begun to learn a bit about targes myself (wish I had the ability to make my own), and what you're showing us here is wonderful work. Gotta' love that free-handed tooling work you are doing. Thanks for sharing!

Greg

Steve Grisetti · Posted: Mon 13 Feb, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject:

Patrick Maclaine · Posted: Tue 14 Feb, 2006 3:59 pm Post subject:

Hi Greg,

Thanks for your commentaries indeed.
If you want to make your own targaid....ahead with that!... is not that difficult if you want to start with a simple one.
Just a few suggestions for your first targaid...
You can design a simple configuration for targaid´s front, - 8 or 10 mm studs for concentric circles and patterns.
If you don´t want to set any centre boss, a 19mm stud would be fine -MacDonald of the Isles targaid shows this configuration among others-.
You can use a piece of hide 1 or 2 mm thick as you are not going to do any tooling work. For targaid´s core you can get a 20" piece of plywood.
About targaid´s back, I guess a thin piece of cow hide would be okay - I don´t suggest you expensive skins, although it´s up to you- and a central pad made of lamb skin will complete the configuration, -some originals were made this way-. Here I forward you some examples of tooling work and lamb pad for targaid´s back.
I´ve got a lot of useful information from different forums here.
Now, I´d like to share some of my knowledge on this particular subject. Although my contribution can be of little help, I just welcome the interaction I am fortunate to enjoy with people from all around the big ball.
Slàinte,
Pat

Patrick Maclaine · Posted: Tue 14 Feb, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: Thanks Steve.

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your compliments.
I don´t have a web site for my targes. They are completely hand made and it takes a lot of time working on them, so , I can not have a targaid made in a week or some and 90% of people buying items like these ones prefer targes made within ten days or two weeks.
I had a site in geocities long ago and got lot of mails from people interested in my targes. The site was the first link of the chain to be sincere.
Anyway; I am looking forward to have my web site " only for patient people" in the near future. We´ll see.
Thanks again.
Slàinte,
Pat

Greg Griggs · Posted: Wed 15 Feb, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject:

Great information, Pat. Thanks for posting the pictures and comments. Don't be shy about giving of your knowledge as there are several of us around here whom enjoy the contributions to these types of subjects. In fact, you may think about submiting an article on targes. If so, get in touch with Nathan. Be well, good sirrah!

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

Thomas McDonald · myArmoury Alumni

Again, nice work there, Patrick !
The reeded boss on your 1st made targe, and also on that last one you posted, is quite similar to that of the Cromarty targaid (sans the center button).

Did you cut the grooves in that boss, or was it something you came across and utilized ?

Thanks for sharing your work with us, Mac

Fig. 4:10 "Culloden the Swords & the Sorrows" -- Scottish Highland targe - Covered on the front with dark cowhide decorated with nine panels of Celtic inversed interlace design. The panels framed in brass-headed nails of varying sizes, many of them missing. The cowhide is torn in places. The central brass boss is reeded with a central plain brass button. The back is covered in deerskin and complete with adjustable arm-straps and hand-grip. c.1700. 19" diam. Traditionally known as the Cromarty Targe. Lender: Private collection .
-Currently on display at the Culloden Visitors Center, near Inverness.

Henrik Bjoern Boegh · Posted: Fri 17 Feb, 2006 11:25 am Post subject:

Hello all!

Patrick, you make some damned fine targaids! Lovely tooling!
Now I'd love it if someone would write an article on targes!

One question: Does anyone have any pictures of adjustable armstraps?

Cheers,
Henrik

Patrick Maclaine · Posted: Fri 17 Feb, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject:

Great idea Nathan!
Thanks so much for your suggestions.
I´ll be working on this project as soon as possible.
Always ready to contribute with my tiny grain of sand.
Slàinte, Pat.

Patrick Maclaine · Posted: Fri 17 Feb, 2006 6:57 pm Post subject:

Hi Greg,
Thanks again for your kind comments.
To be sincere; I´m eager to share my knowledge with people interested in this subject.
I have very busy days ahead. As soon as I can find some free time, I´ll be posting a new topic about the Scottish targaid.
Your interaction would be of great help indeed!.
Slàinte mhath,
Pat

Patrick Maclaine · Posted: Sat 18 Feb, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: Thanks for sharing Mac!

Hi Mac ,

Thanks so much for the large picture and note about the Cromarty targaid.
I have some other pictures of this one but I just can not find them now.
I also have some pictures of the Gwynn targaid which is among my favorite ones.
Aye, I came across these bronze pieces -which belonged to an auld lamp from the 40´s or some- long ago....; I went something like " I swear I ´ve seen a couple of targes with this type of centre boss"...I bought them for a reasonable price. Once at home; I started searching among all my pictures till I met a picture of the Cromarty targaid and realized they had almost the same length in diameter!. I would like to make a reproduction of this targaid in the future as it is of a beautiful configuration really.
Thanks again Mac!
Slàinte mhath,
Pat

Patrick Maclaine · Posted: Sat 18 Feb, 2006 5:49 pm Post subject:

Hi Henrik,
Thanks a lot for your comments.
After some researches I have made through the years, I ´ve found that there are a few percentage of targes featuring both their arm straps and hand grips.
To the best of my knowledge most of them were used as top of barrels after the battle of Culloden.
Fortunately, some years later they have been "rescued" and taken to museums or private collections.
I think the Cromarty targaid - ( Thanks Mac!)- can be a good example of a complete one displaying adjustable arm straps and hand grips.
I know not of pictures of the Cromarty targaid´s back.
Thanks again Henrik!
Slàinte, Pat.

Thomas McDonald · myArmoury Alumni

Hi Patrick

Thanks for sharing that, and for the additional photos of your work !
Keeping one's eye open for pieces that can be utilized, like that old lamp part, is an excellent , and efficient, way to add to a project.

I shot several detailed photos of the Cromarty targaid, amoung others, while visiting Culloden last October.
Unfortuately, due to a mix up, the keys to open the locked cases were not available so I was unable to photograph any of the targaids rear views.

I can't post any of these private research photos publicly but should you attempt to recreate the Cromarty I'm sure I could assist you privately with them !

The Gwynn targaid is indeed a beautiful piece of work ..... here are a few shots I took of it at the Museum of Scotland, Edinburgh.

Slàinte, Mac

Patrick Maclaine · Posted: Sun 19 Feb, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: Tapadh leat!

Hi Mac,

I just can not find words to thank you for sharing this wonderful material...
Tapadh leat MacDhòmhnaill ! .
Excellent pictures!.. I Will add them to my album right now.
This is another one in my list of targaidean reproductions for the future.
I will welcome any contribution from you on this particular subject.
Thanks again Mac!
Slàinte,
Pat.