[Jared Smith]

Bob,
Some interesting fodder for your separate post. Bear in mind King Harold, 1066 AD England, has frequently been estimated to have been roughly 6' 8" tall and was described as making even the largest draft horses of that time look like ponies!

http://historymedren.about.com/b/a/112443.htm

[Bob Burns]

I think everyone is aware that people in certain areas of the globe, in this case Europe are taller and larger in size in our time due to the industrial revolution which brought about many comforts and an abundance of food and far better nutrition. What the exact average height of european adults now vs 600 years ago, I do not know, but as I have learned it's a difference of a couple of inches or so. For the sake of discussion I will say that today it is 5' 9 1/2" and that in the early 15th century it was 5' 7" for an adult male on the average.

This being so, how accurate are we being in practicality rather than historical accuracy of cloning exacting sword sizes, in the proper function of replica swords by adhering to replicating the exact same size sword as opposed to figuring the mathmatical difference in relation to our present day average person's size?

I am no math wizbang, so let me try to illustrate this as best I can. Since now the average height is (estimate) 5' 9 1/2", which would be 2 and a half inches taller than was the average adult male in 1400. If the sword in question was a longsword of overall length 44 inches, would it not be more accurate to produce that same sword today at an overall length of say 47 or 48 inches?

I am also curious if this has ever been given any thorough consideration and thought in theorizing?

Very Curious!

Bob

[Chad Arnow]

I'm curious if skeletal evidence proven this theory.

We know there are exceptions, like Edward I, said to be 7 feet tall from boot to crested great helm.

I've heard that armour is not always displayed in museums exactly how it would be worn, making it appear the wearer would be shorter than in real life.

I find the subject fascinating, even if I don't know anything about it.

[Marcos Cantu]

I know that when I've seen homes preserved from the American Colonial Era, the beds are tiny compared to todays bed. A full size looks luxurious compared to those from only 250 years ago

[Peter Johnsson]

I think it is dangerous to assume that those using swords and armour represent an average of people.
Well armoured and well armed people tend to belong to the elite, especially in ancient times. The elite tend to eat better and live better than the average.

It is also good to remember that medium height has not incrased steadily over time, rather it has varied. It has also varied much between different areas.
An all time low however was during the industrial revolution...

[Bob Burns]

[Bob Burns]

Darn I screwed up the quote feature again!

Sorry,

Bob

[Jeff Pringle]

I think the 'shorter back then' thing is a myth- but I'm no anthropometricist.
Attached is a chart, put together by one - The source document is here:
http://home.uchicago.edu/~cboix/bones.pdf
Also, from the top of a Wiki article on 'human height':
The European Middle Ages was an era of tallness with men of above six feet (1.83 m) considered unremarkable. In Europe human height reached its nadir at the start of the nineteenth century. Until the general rise in human health, as urbanization increased, the accompanying trend was a height decline.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height

[Jared Smith]

I am thinking that Peter has a reasonable line of thinking. Today's American style football players are not average height, average food consumption representatives of American population. I expect a warrior cast to be different than medieval average as well. This has been speculated by others in several previous posts.

Even during the time period when researchers seem to believe Western European height was at a low point (1600s to 1700s ), there is no shortage of tall tales....

http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/UK/UK5.html

[Elling Polden]

Average heights in North Europe was about 173-75 cm in the high middle ages.
Reputedly the average height of french soldiers in the napoleonic was 155 cm. Through the following centuries average heights have increased steadily.
Mostly, it's a question of nutrition. For instance, the japanese average height has rocketed since WWII, due to changed diet.

Norwegian soldiers didn't reach the medevial 173 cm average again until 1960... (present average about 180...)

[Wolfgang Armbruster]

Well, the diet-changes since WWII have resulted in more than just increased height.
To me it looks like people have not only grown taller but also.....bigger *G*.

Kidding aside: I think Elling Polden has a point there. In earlier times the diet of our ancestors was mainly vegetarian. People in northern Europe ate more meat, that's true. Nevertheless their diet was still based largely on wheat, rye and vegetables.
It was only after WWII that more and more people could afford to eat meat more than once a week. As we all know the results are not always desired or healthy, but that's a different issue.

[Marton Pap]

I don' know if my previous message disappeared or just late. I was trying to say, as I know 1768 pattern light cavalry sabres in Hungary were made log enough to reach their owners belly button when standing on their point, to be able to stab the enemy lying on the ground.

[Eric Meulemans]

[Bob Burns]

Some very interesting things said, I never knew that about people sleeping in a sitting position in bed, as for low ceilings and doorways I would think that may have been for the sake of maintaining heat in the home or structure as heat rises. Interesting and sounds like even if there is a height difference between now and then, it is of no real consequence. Every post has been very interesting to me, also it is very true about the difference in height from one country to another, as for instance the Danes and Swedes are a very large people in comparison to say the French.
Also quite interesting about people being smaller during the industrial revolution, as people basically worked in slave mills making huge profits for the industry magnates, and they worked for a pittance, which would affect diet, constantly over worked, complete lack of proper rest and sleep and probably poor medical care.
Another thing that makes a lot of sense is the topic of the warrior class as it would make absolute sense that the professional warriors, or those enlisted etc. would be kept very well fed.

A whole lot of variables come into play that many a person would not think to consider.

Quite interesting!

Bob

[Joel Whitmore]

[Jean Thibodeau]

Bob;

I got into the habit of sleeping while sitting at work during lunch time or very late at night if I was doing an All-nighter: A short 20 minute nap would make working 24 hours strait possible without too much loss of function: Computer graphics and T.V. special effects work with short deadlines. By the way employers who frown on napping on the job should understand that a short nap INCREASES your efficiency and reduces the number of time wasting mistakes one makes if overtired.

Anyway back to sleeping sitting up: It's great when you have a cold or have eaten a bit too much and I like doing it enough that I do it about half the time. with a cold it makes breathing very easy and limit annoying post nasal drip.

So, I guess it's quite possible that sleeping this way was the custom at some periods of history.

[Wolfgang Armbruster]

@ Joel Whitmore:
I should have said that I was only speaking for Germany Of course diets vary not only with time but it also depends on where you live.

A few days ago I read a very intersting article about diets and how it is influenced by peoples genes. They found out that the bodies of northern Europeans are more used to eating meat. Sometimes certain people absolutely need to eat meat or they will start feeling weak and sick. On the other hand southern Europeans or people from cultures that are used to a mainly vegetarian diet function the other way around. Of course that's quite an overgeneralization but I think one can understand diets better with this info in the back of one's brain.

Just look at the Inuits/Eskimos. They eat nothing but meat. Their cholesterol level is way too high compared to the rest of the world. Nevertheless they don't die from heart-attacks and such things. Their bodies are used to it. May they'd get sick if they changed their diet.

Having said that, I think the best diet is a well-balanced one that includes vegetables, meat and fruits alike. I hope I didn't sound too much like a know-it-all *G*
Take it with a grain of salt

[Chris Lampe]

[Stephen Hand]

A lot of masters recommended sword lengths based on the proportions of the wielder. If these are followed, then our height in comparison with past generations is immaterial.

[Sean Flynt]

FWIW, Irish archaeologists just found an ancient, well-preserved, 6'6" male corpse in an Irish bog.