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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom
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 Posted: Mon 02 Jan, 2006 11:42 am Post subject: Small Sword Engraving Says What? |
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Find a pic of a smallsword from a guy who lived 1760 - 1811 and the words are in German language
" das beste schwertz in allem streit ist gottes hûlff und zapfer keit."
"Those best swords in all ......"
Link to information
Thanks! 
Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Mon 02 Jan, 2006 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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My German sucks, what little there is of it. Still, I may be able to help get a little closer... I could be TOTALLY off base.
"Streit" translates to something like conflict or contestation.
"Gottes" - God's
So, perhaps this gets us somewhere?
"the best swords in all conflicts are God's...."
Got me... I'm curious, too.
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Sam Barris
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| Posted: Mon 02 Jan, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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I speak exactly no German, so I cheated and plugged it into several online translation services. Each one gave me something slightly different, but the general idea was, "The best sword in all strife is God's hûlff and zapfer keit." The italicized part soundly defeated every program I threw at it.
There has to be some devoted student of Liechtenauer around here somewhere who can do better than me, though I'm tempted to run over to Barnes and Noble and just look it up in a German dictionary.
Pax,
Sam Barris
"Any nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools." —Thucydides
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William C Champlin
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| Posted: Mon 02 Jan, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Hi guys. I can't find my german-english dictionary but "hulfen" with umlaut is "to help" in present imperfect.
I'll keep looking,W
tweetchris
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom
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| Posted: Mon 02 Jan, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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i think i have something for "und zapfer keit " " and bravery " " och tapperhet "
"hûlff " must be an old word 
Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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E.B. Erickson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 02 Jan, 2006 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Rough translation: the best sword for all (any ) battle is God's help and one's bravery (maybe God's courage/encouragement in place of one's bravery).
--ElJay
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Wolfgang Armbruster
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| Posted: Tue 03 Jan, 2006 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| E.B. Erickson wrote: | Rough translation: the best sword for all (any ) battle is God's help and one's bravery (maybe ).
--ElJay |
actually (almost) correct
" das beste schwertz in allem streit ist gottes hûlff und zapfer keit."
some words here have a really weird spelling, perhaps because it is
1. old German
2. a dialect (I'm not sure about that, but this German sounds even more "ancient" than the German Talhoffer is speaking)
Zapferkeit is nowadays written as Tapferkeit (bravery), Hülff is Hilfe (help), Schwertz is Schwert (sword).
Translation:
The best sword for any battle is god's help and bravery.
Mr. Erickson's guess about God's courage/encouragement in place of one's bravery is correct.
Hope I could help
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Sam Barris
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| Posted: Tue 03 Jan, 2006 4:06 am Post subject: |
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Very cool. The only thing I found for zapfer using my highly inferior methods was something like bartender. I thought that sounded funny. "The best sword in any battle is God's help and lots of booze."
Pax,
Sam Barris
"Any nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools." —Thucydides
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Johan S. Moen
Location: Kristiansand, Norway Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 259
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| Posted: Tue 03 Jan, 2006 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| Wolfgang Armbruster wrote: |
actually (almost) correct
" das beste schwertz in allem streit ist gottes hûlff und zapfer keit."
some words here have a really weird spelling, perhaps because it is
1. old German
2. a dialect (I'm not sure about that, but this German sounds even more "ancient" than the German Talhoffer is speaking)
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Hulff can probably be both old German, and dialect. In my Austrian dialect we say "hulff" instead of "hilfe".
Johan Schubert Moen
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom
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| Posted: Wed 04 Jan, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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Big Thanks guy's, it always nice to know what those words on swords says,
i have not seen this sword, i believed that the owner him self have made it, because of that "strange" dialect.
Sam! allot of god's booze will help to  
Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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Wolfgang Armbruster
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| Posted: Thu 05 Jan, 2006 3:25 am Post subject: |
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Another possibility would be that the engraving is in Frakturschrift (fractured script/font, most people nowadays have a really hard time to read these old letters and often confuse letters).
Maybe the museum staff got a few letters wrong. Just wild guessing on my part
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This is a standard topic