[Nick K.]

Greetings. New person with at least one of the stalest, least answerable newbie questions in newbiedom ( what to buy ).

So - I came upon the Albion site ( and from there, this one ) more or less by accident a couple of months back. Until then I was at most only very vaguely aware that functional replicas of medieval swords might exist...somewhere. I WAS fully aware of all the cheesy late-night-public-access-cable-knife-vendor level of cheap replicas and even was once in possesion of an old, blunted, cheap Indian-made sabre acquired by mother in a Michigan flea market decades ago and bestowed on my 11th or 12th birthday. But I never had any real interest in some silly looking stainless steel knockoff from some lousy B fantasy films ( not the first Conan film - I'm talking Krull or worse ) or some flimsy "ninja katana" from 17 Gold Monkeys. The Albion stuff though - THAT caught my attention. And fascination. Now starting to lean towards the ever so slightly obsessive.

So I want to buy a sword. Ah, but which? Whatever I fancy and can afford, yes? That's the obvious ( and perhaps only real ) answer, but, well, the thing is I'm an indecisive sort.

I'm not interested in re-enactments or ren-fairs. Haven't been to one in years and certainly wouldn't participate if I were to attend. Not that I have anything against them, I think they're fun enough as a spectator, but I don't even like getting dressed up to go to a good restaurant.

I am not a practitioner of medieval martial arts, though I am developing the beginnings of a glimmer of an intellectual interest in them. Whether that will ever translate into any actual practice I don't know ( have to get over that whole lazy thing first ). I'd like to learn the most basic basics of proper weapon handling, but I'm not sure I am ever going to go motivated enough to go beyond that ( but never say never ).

I am a history geek and though my emphasis has never specifically revolved around ancient weaponry ( but plenty of military history more generally ), I am as fascinated by them as the next semi-educated male wandering through the British Museum. And philosophically I like the concept of historical accuracy, quality craftmanship and functionality.

Truly though, it will mostly hang on my wall. At least for now.

So looking aesthetically at what is available, more than anything else I find myself drawn to the 10th-15th century single-handed swords. Also, they will need a ( reasonably and roughly ) matching scabbard - I both like the look of scabbarded swords and am cautious less I get gutted like a fish if some wall-hanging suddenly gives way ( at this point some kind-hearted and helpful soul will no doubt chime in to note that making your own scabbard is both fun and easy - no doubt true, but sadly and quite truthfully, I got a "D" in 8th grade wood shop - I can assemble an IKEA cabinet, slowly and painfully, but would never dare assail something as challenging, as, say, staining unfinished bookcases - it would just be a recipe for messy disaster ).

All thing being equal, then, I find myself really drawn to the Albion Solingen w/the matching handmade scabbard. However, all things aren't equal and plopping down $1700 or so is at this point a bit more than I am ready to commit to. $1000 is probably a safer upper limit ( including scabbard ) and really I should try to stay a bit under that. So I guess my questions/solicitations for opinions or advice are:

1.) What are the opinions on the Albion campaign-line scabbards? Howabout vs. the ( much cheaper ) Arms & Armor leather scabbards? I know that scabbard storage is slightly frowned upon, but that properly treated/oiled wood-core scabbards are supposed to better for that purpose than properly cured/dyed leather, which is better than cheaply cured/dyed leather. Just how much of a difference in terms of blade maintenance would I be looking at from one to another?

2.) Generally speaking what is the honest appraisal of Arms & Armor vs. Albion in terms of overall quality? I've read the reviews and I know both are tops at their general pricepoints, but any subjective opinions on even small differences in overall attention to detail/quality? Nothing mean-spirited of course - even just amorphous musings on overall differences in"feel" or philosophy would be interesting to hear. Perhaps preferences on semi-specific model classes - A&A 12th century vs. Albion Hospitaler, for example

3.) Semi-general question - are there date stamps on the reviews here that I missed? For example the Duke of Urbino review states that it is "a sword in transition." I rather like the design, but is it still transitioning?

4.) Senlac vs. Reeve vs. Bayeux vs. Templar vs. Hospitaler vs. Squire vs. A&A equivalents? Oh, wait, I think you've done this one, what, 800 times? Stupid newbies never can decide on anything .

5.) Is there any A&A or Albion quality manufacturer of Islamic designs? I seem to see mostly very costly custom-builds or a couple of steps down in quality, nothing in between. Anything I missed? I have a particular interest in Islamic history and an eventual period contrast would be nice.

Hmmm...well, that's enough for now. Thanks for reading .

- Nick

[Alexander Ren]

I can provide a comment about you second question concering the differences between A&A and Albion. I will leave the other questions to those who have first-hand knowledge of these swords since I do not yet own any

From what I have read A&A swords are all recreations of specific historical swords that are in museums whereas Albion's NextGens are more generaly based on each type of sword but not any specific example, for example the crossguard is based on sword "X" from museum such-and-such while the pommel is based on sword "Y" from museum so-and-so.

I don't know if that helps with your decision any. It certainly doesn't help me narrow my choices down because I like several swords from both A&A and Albion. Unfortunatly it will be some time before I can afford one being just a poor college student.

Hope this helps and anyone who know other than what I have said please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Alex

[Aaron Schnatterly]

[Steve Grisetti]

Welcome to the forum, Nick!

It sounds to me that your progression to sword obsession has been remarkably similar to mine. I have never been to a ren-faire, myself, and can’t imagine participating as other than a spectator. Though I have occasionally considered getting involved in living history. I also love history, and that seems to be the case with many of us at myArmoury.com. I also keep making noises about getting involved in medieval swordsmanship, but never actually do anything about it. My schedule never seems to have the time....

It can be really tough to make your first sword selection(s). If I were to buy every piece that “speaks to me”, I would be bankrupted. You, and only you, can determine your selection criteria and what piece or pieces meet those criteria. And you will only get there by doing what you are doing already – reading and asking questions.

I think that the reviews here are a good resource for getting the evaluations of users/collectors with much more experience that I will likely ever have. You make a good point about date stamps on those reviews, however. This would be very useful data. Some of the reviews are of swords that are only now available on the pre-owned (pre-loved?, or, in some cases, pre-hated?) market.

I personally feel that you can’t go wrong with either A&A or Albion. I have two A&A swords and two Albion (1st gen) swords. There are some other production makers out there that have a good reputation at a lower price (e.g., Lutel, DelTin, Armour Class, etc.). I remain very fond of my first “nice” sword, which is a DelTin, but this is definitely a question of getting what you pay for.

I, too, am very fond of the Albion Solingen and Kevin Iseli’s lovely matching scabbard, so we both have good taste!! I don’t have any of Kevin’s scabbards, but I gave my wife a brooch that he made – very fine work!

Regarding scabbards, I tend to agree with your concern about getting “…gutted like a fish….” I currently keep my swords in an old gun cabinet, and only have two scabbards. One of them is an A&A leather scabbard that I bought with the particular sword (the Gustav Vasa). The other scabbard is very similar in weight and construction, but much lower quality (this one was actually given to me by another forumite). These are what I, and many of the other forumites would call transport scabbards, and I find them very useful for that purpose, and wish that I had more of them for my other swords. I recently nicked the edge of one of my nice pieces, and a transport scabbard would have prevented that damage. I am also not a very handy kind of person. However, I might be willing to try my hand at making a transport scabbard, since appearance won’t be as important, and it won’t be as expensive or time-consuming a venture as making a historical scabbard.

I tend to think that, if you keep your sword stored in the scabbard, but regularly remove the sword to make sure it is thoroughly oiled (or waxed), the sword will be ok. I do keep a couple of swords in their scabbards, but of course I remove them on an almost daily basis to play with, I mean, inspect and maintain the swords.

[Joe Fults]

1.) What are the opinions on the Albion campaign-line scabbards? Howabout vs. the ( much cheaper ) Arms & Armor leather scabbards? I know that scabbard storage is slightly frowned upon, but that properly treated/oiled wood-core scabbards are supposed to better for that purpose than properly cured/dyed leather, which is better than cheaply cured/dyed leather. Just how much of a difference in terms of blade maintenance would I be looking at from one to another

Campaign scabbard I've never seen first hand. Good repuation though. Leather A&A I have seen first hand. Not that exciting, but provides a package for carrying the sword and the cost vector refelcts this. As for the maintenance question, that will probably depend as much on you local environment (ambient humidity) as the scabbard (at least from this sample). I've stored in quality leather, suspect quality leather, and wood cored without that much maintenance required, and without problem for a 6 or so months at a time. Mileage will vary.



2.) Generally speaking what is the honest appraisal of Arms & Armor vs. Albion in terms of overall quality? I've read the reviews and I know both are tops at their general pricepoints, but any subjective opinions on even small differences in overall attention to detail/quality? Nothing mean-spirited of course - even just amorphous musings on overall differences in"feel" or philosophy would be interesting to hear. Perhaps preferences on semi-specific model classes - A&A 12th century vs. Albion Hospitaler, for example

Quality, flip a coin. I generally lean a bit towards Albions because A&A often have the pommels keyed to the tangs and then a threaded pommel nut which is peened down. Its a very solid construction method but it always looks like a nut to me. Its a trivial annoyance that does not impact quality in the least, but based on my somewhat limited experience, its not "right" for some periods. That said, A&A is very accomodative, and I believe they can tweak things to preference in most cases.



3.) Semi-general question - are there date stamps on the reviews here that I missed? For example the Duke of Urbino review states that it is "a sword in transition." I rather like the design, but is it still transitioning?

I believe it refences to the design in its historic context, not the reproduction sword itself.



4.) Senlac vs. Reeve vs. Bayeux vs. Templar vs. Hospitaler vs. Squire vs. A&A equivalents? Oh, wait, I think you've done this one, what, 800 times? Stupid newbies never can decide on anything Wink .

List them. Prioritize them. Then slowly buy them all.



5.) Is there any A&A or Albion quality manufacturer of Islamic designs? I seem to see mostly very costly custom-builds or a couple of steps down in quality, nothing in between. Anything I missed? I have a particular interest in Islamic history and an eventual period contrast would be nice.

Don't know bu t somebody here might.

[Bob Burns]

Hi Nick, welcome to a really great place, in my opinion you found the great resources on the internet. I am new myself and am very much just learning. This is great place to start.


Welcome,

Bob

[Nick K.]

Thanks gentlemen, I appreciate all the welcomes and replies.

[Chad Arnow]

Guys, if you go to the Updates page, there are dates for each item published.

[Steve Grisetti]

Well, DUH! Thanks, Chad, for waking me up!

[Chad Arnow]

[Harlan Hastings]

[Lance K.]

Nick,

I also stumbled upon the Albion site and could not bring my attention away until I had one of my own. Since I had never seen a quality sword until then I had never in my life even considered buying sword, but Albion changed that. I looked at the Solingen for months but I've got a thing for powerful longswords with presence, which is why I now own The Viceroy.

[Steve Grisetti]

[Travis Canaday]

To throw my two cents in...

As far as swords go, I would go with Albion. I have not had the chance to handle either them or A&A, but the fact the Albion uses the traditional hilt construction is big selling point for me. That's why I put my order in for a Ringeck!

Also... before you invest in a sword, I suggest you think about what kind of swordsmanship you would most like to study... that is if you choose to do so. Not that you would ever be disapointed with your sword; just that maybe later on if you happen get into the German longsword traditon... you might wish you had one of these pointy, two-handers.

gotta love having choises!

[Chad Arnow]

[Nick K.]

[Patrick Kelly]

[Chad Arnow]

[Doug Gardner]

Hi Nick,

You've been given some good advice, so far. I can't promise that mine will be as good, but I'll throw in my 2 cents.

1. Try to get the opportunity to handle some of these first. The visual impression is clearly important for your purposes, but remember that these are dynamic weapons. How they feel in the hand is going to be important to you. Maybe not immediately, but I bet eventually it will be. Also, if you can handle them first, you will get to see them first-hand. Pictures only tell part of the story! The rest of my post may not be any good, but I'd put money on this point!

2. I'm somewhat surprised that nobody has mentioned Christian Fletcher's scabbards http://www.christianfletcher.com. You can buy an Albion through him (for the same price Albion will sell it direct, I believe). If you do, you can commission a scabbard from him. I've seen some of his work, and am very impressed. Depending on the time period, they aren't necessarily the most period-correct, but he can generally do what you ask. Check out what he did with the Albion Regent. He has 2 different scabbards for the regent on his website. They are very nice for the price. Turnaround isn't quick, but it is faster than Albion's custom scabbards, by all accounts.

3. Two Albions that are conspicuously absent from your list, I think, are the Sovereign and the Knight. I own both, and agree with everything said about them. The Sovereign, in particular, is a very surprising blade. I was never drawn to it until I picked one up. As far as the longswords go, Lance is right. The Viceroy is a wonderful and visually striking blade. I own both the Regent and the Viceroy, and the Viceroy is my favorite. Others will disagree. A local friend of mine prefers the Regent over the Viceroy, I believe. It doesn't really matter, though. You need to look at them up-close, handle them, and then decide. It sounds like you are more interested in an earlier time-period, though. I'm afraid I can't offer any advice or observations on the A&A swords. I've handled a few, and they seem very nice. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to buy one.

Regardless of what you decide to do, if you are only planning to get one, then please take as much time as you need. Lazyness may serve you well, here. Allow inertia to prevent you from taking precipitous action, but allow curiousity to lead you to further investigation, until you are confident in your choice. Inspect and handle the alternatives (that may involve some travel on your part). When you're ready, GO FOR IT! My guess is that you'll like it a lot, after you invest that much effort in its selection.

Best of luck!

[Jean Thibodeau]

[quote="Chad Arnow"]