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Anton de Vries
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Posted: Tue 06 Dec, 2005 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Therionarms had a pair for sale recently, but unfortunately already sold them. The pictures are still up though and can be seen HERE.
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Ville Paananen
Location: Finland Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 8
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Posted: Tue 06 Dec, 2005 8:33 am Post subject: |
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I don't think you could break your hand with pata. The force needed to brake a hand from elbow or shoulder (wrist static)would rather bend or brake the blade, or cut it free.
There is a picture of pata used on foot with dhal shield (low left) and horseback: http://hindunet.org/saraswati/shivaji.jpg
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Hisham Gaballa
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Posted: Tue 06 Dec, 2005 8:46 am Post subject: |
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I think Rawson's interest was more as an entusiast and collector, I doubt that he ever tried using the weapons he wrote about. I suspect that the techniques of pata-fencing are now a long lost art.
According to Elgood, not all patas used European blades, many especially the 19th century examples used Indian blades from Lahore. When they did use European blades, they preferred German or Italian.
I've already shown this one, according to the website it probably is a European blade. If it is, then it looks like it's off a broadsword:
http://www.oriental-arms.com/item.php?id=1201
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Ville Paananen
Location: Finland Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 8
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Posted: Tue 06 Dec, 2005 10:28 am Post subject: |
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The mentioned fact about relative rarity of pata compared to other Indian sword types put me to think the practical side. You cannot wear a pata at the belt comfortably, like you wear a tulwar (or rapier or side sword or hanger etc). Earlier Indians favored bow, and as most of the time everywhere, sword was mainly a secondary weapon (I think). Also firearms were widely used in India at most parts and most of the time pata was supposed to be used.
As an everyday "carry around" sidearm pata is not very practical, but I think it might prove its worth in battle, as suggested by quoted P. S. Rawson's "The Indian Sword".
Last edited by Ville Paananen on Tue 06 Dec, 2005 11:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kel Rekuta
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Posted: Tue 06 Dec, 2005 11:57 am Post subject: |
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That's what I always thought about these. As I had no significant experience outside European swords it was difficult to make sense of how they might be used.
Then I put one on while visiting the Royal Ontario Museum Middle Eastern collections last winter. Wow.
Cuts flow from the elbow like you might use a long handled paint brush. Thrusts pivot from the elbow and shoulder with strength it must take years to develop using a rapier. Maybe it is a cavalry weapon optimized for the thrust. I think it was a courtly dueling weapon by the 18thC just as the longsword was a regional dueling oddity in contemporary Germany.
Weird but elegant in a way that a few weapons specialized for duelling seem to be. Duelling shields, buckler/knife/gauntlets, et cetera also demonstrate the same eccentricity. YMMV.
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