Basket-hilt Question -- myArmoury.com

Stephen A. Fisher · Posted: Wed 24 Dec, 2003 2:06 pm Post subject: Basket-hilt Question

Mac, anyone,

I was curious as to when the horseman's ring began to appear on basket-hilts.

(I guess this gives me a good excuse to post a picture of a Vince Evans basket-hilt Big Grin

)

Stephen A. Fisher · Posted: Wed 24 Dec, 2003 2:10 pm Post subject:

examples

Stephen A. Fisher · Posted: Wed 24 Dec, 2003 2:21 pm Post subject:

Stephen A. Fisher · Posted: Wed 24 Dec, 2003 2:23 pm Post subject:

Thomas McDonald · myArmoury Alumni

Hi Stephen

A very good question , indeed .....

My guess is early 18th century ........
John Wallace's book, "Scottish Swords & Dirks", describes a Thomas Gemmill horseman hilt as being an "early" example (1715-35) of this feature !

From: Charles Whitelaw's book : "Scottish Arms Makers"

I'd imagine the English had examples predating the Gemmill but I can't think of any offhand ?
( them visions of sugerplums have my brain shut down lately :-)
Bet Vince or Eljay would know the deal !

Mac

E.B. Erickson · Industry Professional

Hi Stephen and Thomas,
Thomas nailed the info on the Scottish rein ovals, and asked the question about when these appeared on English baskets. Good question, and one that I'd never considered!

But I recalled an English basket from the Spring 1998 Wallis and Wallis Connoiseur Collector's auction that had a nice English basket that was dated about 1680. I have the catalog on hand, and sure enough, it does have the rein oval. It's not visible in the photo of the sword, but is in the description. The basket is formed of serpent-headed scrolls, and if I can get to a scanner, I'll post a photo.

Another possible example is in an article that Thomas sent me last year. It's entitled "An Appreciation of a Late 17th Century English Heavy Dragoon Officer's Sword", and the author is Oakeshott. The hilt is a POS, and although it's not mentioned in the article (as the author focuses on the blade and why the whole sword dates in the late 1600s), the fact that the sword is described as a dragoon sword argues for a rein oval. But without a photo or description, we can't be sure here.

By the way, POS stands for "Pinch of Snuff". Stephen has a photo of one of these already posted-- it's the one held point up and with the red liner.

--ElJay

Thomas McDonald · myArmoury Alumni

Hi Eljay

Is the basket your referring to the one in the upper left of this picture ?

Merry Christmas everyone ! Mac

Thomas McDonald · myArmoury Alumni

Another question .....

I wonder how many existing basket-hilts had a ring added, in later service, to equip them for cavalry useage ?

I found another early Scot example , this one by the great John Simpson (of Glasgow), in George Neumann's book
"Swords & Blades of the American Revolution" !

Mac

Stephen A. Fisher · Posted: Thu 25 Dec, 2003 5:04 pm Post subject:

Hi Mac & Eljay,

Merry Christmas!

Thanks for your insight. That question has been bugging me for a while. Oh, and I finally figured out why the POS baskets are called 'Pinch of Snuff'.

E.B. Erickson · Industry Professional

Thomas,
The sword in the upper left of your posted photo is the one I was referring to. Now I don't need to find a scanner! There's two of these in existence, as Vince got to handle the illustrated sword's nicer twin on one of his England trips.

Stephen,
A Merry Christmas to you, too!

On the addition of rein ovals: I've seen a couple of baskets that looked like the oval was added at a later time. On those I've seen, the saltire plate was removed and a small oval added in it's place. Now that I think of it, there may be one of these in Neumann.

--ElJay

Thomas McDonald · myArmoury Alumni

Hi Eljay

Yes, Neumann has this English hilt, 258.S (pictured below), that looks as if the ring was added later !
It has a choppy look to it , and doesn't flow with the rest of the hilt ( at least in my opinion ;-)

Merry Christmas Day , Mac