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Joshua Reptsik
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 Posted: Thu 20 Oct, 2005 7:54 pm Post subject: Mitten gauntlet pros and cons |
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I'm a member of a fight academy that does free spar with modified shinias, hickory wasters and occasionally steel blunts. My hands are in dire need of protection and it's only a matter of time until I get hurt. I'm thinking of purchasing a pair of mitten gauntlets but I have no way of testing them. I don't know how much they may inhibit range of motion or ability to grapple. I predominately fight german longsword, straight from Tobler's books. If anyone is familiar with mittens in action let me know what you think. Thanks.
" You little fool who wanted to be the best, see what happened." -MS 3227a
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Herbert Schmidt
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| Posted: Fri 21 Oct, 2005 12:06 am Post subject: |
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Mitten Gauntlets are ok - IF the thumb movement is good. So check befor if the thumbs allows you all the freedom of movement you need like putting the thumb on the blade. Otherwise I never had problems with mitten gauntlets. Of course you need to be sure they are well made etc. As usual you won't get good quality for a low price.
be safe!
Herbert
www.arsgladii.at
Historical European Martial Arts
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Gavin Kisebach
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| Posted: Fri 21 Oct, 2005 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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I have a pair and I hate them. I bought them for spear work, and they do offer good protection, but I cannot change grips in a timely fashion. If you go with mittens and plan to do anything that involves changing weapons, or just changing grips, avoid clamshell gauntlets. I realize that money is a factor, but if it's within your means buy fingered gauntlets.
There are only two kinds of scholars; those who love ideas and those who hate them. ~ Emile Chartier
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sat 22 Oct, 2005 5:28 am Post subject: |
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Let me preface my statement by saying that I have never owned a pair of mitten gauntlets.
However, they were pretty popular in certain areas during certain eras, so they must have served well. There were times when they were at least as popular as fingered gauntlets. Our ancestors weren't fools after all. They depended on their arms and armour to protect their lives and livelihoods. Something that had inherent design flaws and drawbacks that severely hindered its usefulness wouldn't have been is use for very long.
Not every replica pair is good, though. You can see Bill Grandy's thoughts on his MRL pair here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=2284 .
Gavin, who made yours? Your dislike of them may have to do more with fit, construction, and/or historical accuracy of the pair you have than with the fact that they are mitten gauntlets.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Sat 22 Oct, 2005 8:23 am Post subject: |
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I used to fight in a pair of mitten gauntlets, in fact I've never owned a pair of fingered gauntlets. The most important thing is the range of movement within the articulations. If they can't move freely throughout a pretty broad range of movement the gauntlets will feel cramped and hindering. I never had a complaint with mine.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Gavin Kisebach
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| Posted: Sat 22 Oct, 2005 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Gavin, who made yours? Your dislike of them may have to do more with fit, construction, and/or historical accuracy of the pair you have than with the fact that they are mitten gauntlets. |
I don't wan't to throw the maker under the bus, it's the design I dislike, and I may not be using them right. In fact I'm sure I must be. I have clamshell gauntlets, and the thumb plate is rivited in place. this is fine for pikes, where the same sliding thrust is used repeatedly, but for anything else, it's very difficult to readjust of grab a backup weapon. The protection is amazing, all of my other friends have mitten gauntlets, and have all been bashed when their thumbs or the first knuckle of their index finger shifted over and became slightly exposed. I've never been hit from an unprotected angle. No complaints there.
I would agree that the thumb articulation and how well your thumb stays protected are the two biggest factors. the best design I think is a full leather enclosure on the bottom of the thumbplate, down to the midjoint or just beyond. This allows for a strong grip, but straps tend to strech out and suddenly your thumb is not covered anymore. you might not realize until it's clobberin time.
Patrick, would you agree?
There are only two kinds of scholars; those who love ideas and those who hate them. ~ Emile Chartier
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Gavin Kisebach
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| Posted: Sat 22 Oct, 2005 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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Oh here's a pic of mine.
 Attachment: 29.32 KB
There are only two kinds of scholars; those who love ideas and those who hate them. ~ Emile Chartier
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Joshua Reptsik
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| Posted: Sat 22 Oct, 2005 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the input. I think I'm gonna hold off on the mittens. I have also been considering a pair of 14c hourglass finger gauntlets or a pair of Wisby's. DarkHeart Armoury really have nice looking stuff.
" You little fool who wanted to be the best, see what happened." -MS 3227a
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Sat 22 Oct, 2005 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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Gavin,
The thumb plate on those gauntlets looks far too overbuilt to me. Mine were a pretty standard affair in that area. I used them in the smash and bash world of SCA combat and never had a problem I wonder if that feature could be the problem?
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Bill Grandy
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sat 22 Oct, 2005 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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I have tried a few gauntlets that were geared more towards SCA, and I've noticed that they tend to be more bulky than historical examples due to SCA regulations. That's not necessarily good or bad, but it is definately something to keep in mind when analyzing what the gauntlets can and can't do.
For example, I have a pair of 14th c. hourglass finger gauntlets that I use when bouting with steel. The intent here is to replicate unarmoured combat, but I need the extra protection there because accidents around the hands can potentially result in never being able to hold a sword again, so I wear armour there. They protect just fine in that setting, but in certain styles of combat, such as SCA, these particular gauntlets wouldn't be enough protection at all. There isn't a whole lot of padding between the back of the hand and the steel, and they're a little more open than SCA styled gauntlets so that I can grip the weapon firmly without having the gauntlet connect with the hilt much. So it isn't really the type of gauntlet, but rather what the gauntlet is designed for, FWIW.
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Gavin Kisebach
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| Posted: Sat 22 Oct, 2005 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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agreed.
There are only two kinds of scholars; those who love ideas and those who hate them. ~ Emile Chartier
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Anton de Vries
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| Posted: Sun 23 Oct, 2005 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| Joshua Reptsik wrote: | | I have also been considering a pair of 14c hourglass finger gauntlets or a pair of Wisby's. DarkHeart Armoury really have nice looking stuff. |
Thanks for the tip. Gotta love those hourglass and Wisby's.
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Alexander Hinman
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| Posted: Mon 07 Nov, 2005 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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To ressurect this thread, I have a question about mitten gauntlets. How comfortable would anyone who has those be when trying to grab an opponent's sword?(as plates 46, 49 in Talhoffer) By comfortable, I mean how easy do you think it would be? Do you think you could pull it off or would you have to concentrate too much trying to get your gauntletted hand around it?
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This is a standard topic