[Peter Morwood]

I've just been commenting on the thread about the maintenance of mail, and it's reawakened a question which has often nibbled at me, but which I've never asked before. So I'm asking now...

When did "maille" take over from "mail"?

I've always been notorious for looking things up before replying to a thread, and none of the older books (Oakeshott, Edge & Paddock, Blair, Wilkinson, Laking, Ffoulkes and even Stone) which I consulted before writing this reply use the "period-quaint" spelling. (They weren't especially helpful in providing suitable information for my reply, either, but that's another matter.)

I regard "more recent" books as those published post-1997 -- not an arbitrary date, but the publication of Clements' s Renaissance Swordsmanship, which, leaving any other comments aside, seems (unless I missed something else) to be the earliest book in my library representing the modern resurgence in Western Martial Arts.) An admittedly-cursory glance through those more recent books ( most of which seem to be published by Chivalry Bookshelf with a few from Paladin and several other single volumes from other publishers) found the "maille" spelling only in Christian Tobler's Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship.

(I have no idea why the entire title won't display in proper bold...)

As a full-time writer and part-time copy editor, I'm professionally curious (because sooner or later I'll have to take one side or the other with my own work, and justify it) to find out, if possible, where the currently-popular "ye olde Englysshe" spelling originated. Despite having no basis in the classic books on the subject such as those I listed above, it's encountered far more frequently on the Internet than the more traditional spelling: here, NetSword, SFI... Do armour-specific boards use it too?

For some reason, I keep blaming, sorry, that should be thinking of the SCA...

As for pronunciation, and bearing in mind how often I've heard "Yee Oldeey" spoken just that way, is "maille" pronounced "male" or sometimes even "male-eey" (God forbid, even in fun. ) I'm not even half-joking; apart from the pronunciation "humour" which wasn't really funny, this post is a good seven-eighths serious.

[Craig Johnson]

Hey Peter

7/8ths is pretty good for you

I am just happy we are getting away from putting the word "chain" in front of it. One of my personal irritations.

I expect you are correct that it has been manly influenced by the reenactment community in all its varied forms. The desire to be "correct" with terminology from the period can be difficult as spelling was not considered set in stone, as I am sure you are well aware.

As for usage I believe the correct pronunciation is just mail. I have heard a few variations but these are often affectations more than anything else. Its not near as confusing as people trying to come up with period pronunciation for such things as rapier, sallet or katzbalger.

Hope all is well with you, any chance of you being state side in the near future?

Best
Craig

[Chad Arnow]

Peter,
That's a good question. Those of us that write reviews and articles on this site have switched to mail as our spelling of choice. We used to use maille, but we talked about it, looked around at reputable sources and settled on mail. Maille is perhaps a French spelling (?).

[Pamela Muir]

Hi Peter,

In all honesty, I probably have no idea what I am talking about, but I'll tell you my own little theory anyway...

I think you said it right here:

[Allan Senefelder]

Far as i'm aware, Chad hit it. Its the French spelling(I forget what the latin root for the word is but the spellings are all pretty close in french, italian,spanish and kings english. the latin root means net i believe). Alot of armour pieces are still most often refered to by the French name even though they have names in other languages and even them many were corruptions of French names as French was so widely spoken during the middle ages by the upper classes I suppose. Example, gauntlet, cuirass, cuisse ect. Best i've got anyway. Maybe some one else has more info.

[Gordon Frye]

I would venture to suggest that it's a combination of all of the above answers, but mostly to get away from the spelling of mail which, at least in North American English, so much more generally means "Post", as in "Post Office". By spelling the armour "maille" one immediately can differentiate it from something made of paper and shipped via the Post Office, without feeling the need to add on the proviso of "chain" in front of it. By going back a few centuries in spelling it is given an immediate and unambiguous definition, at least as far as the tiny reenacting and collecting community is concerned.

Just my own thoughts on it, though.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Guy Thomas]

Here is what Merriam-Webster online has to say about the noun "mail" when referring to armor:

Etymology: Middle English maille, from Middle French, from Latin macula spot, mesh

It would be interesting to find out when and how the revival of the older spelling came about, I use it and don't even know where I picked it up! Looks like it is a borrowed French word, not uncommom in the English language and has already been pointed out by Allan.

[Patrick Kelly]

Before we decided to standardize the terms we use for our content I used maille rather than mail. Why? Because I thought it looked neat and old-fashioned. No deeper reason for me personally.

[Aaron Schnatterly]

[Gordon Frye]

[Jean Thibodeau]

Well: I'm a French speaking Canadian or Québécois for the more nationalistic still upset by the plains of Abraham defeat to the English in 1759.

So I have MY excuse to use MAILLE, and now it's become a habit and whenever I see mail I want to lick a stamp.

Oh, and my own spelling VICE of capitalizing weapons or armour parts when I am discussing them in a post where I consider them the same as proper names when we are discussing them: In an ordinary sentence I might not capitalize these.

Add to this that in graphics and advertising capitalization tends to be used in English Willie nilly for emphasis or just aesthetic reasons not related to strict grammatical rules ! ( And I'm French so I can always plead ignorance or
CONTRARINESS ! )

[Gordon Frye]

Jean;

Rules? In ENGLISH? You GOTTA be joking! All it IS is exceptions to the rules! (Depends on what the definition of "IS" is, of course, !) The Willy Nilly capitalization/punctuation of English is one of the ways we use to rule the world, you know. It wasn't the Battle of the Plains of Abraham that enslaved you, it was Dr. Johnson's Dictionary!

Cheers!

Gordon

[Helen Miller]

Wikipedia has this:

[Dan Howard]

Maille is French. Mail is English. If you are writing in French or in a Norman/French context then "maille" would be fine, just as "lorica hamata" would be fine if writing in a Roman/Latin context. If writing in an English context or speaking generally then "mail" is the word to use. Yes its ambiguous. So are thousands of other English words. Do you use French spelling for all of them too?

"Chain" was not used in the Middle Ages nor in the Renaissance to refer to this armour. The earliest incidence of the word I can find is the end of the 18th century.

http://www.knights.arador.com/materials/chainmailandringmail.pdf

[Peter Morwood]

Pamela's and Gordon's comments make a lot of sense: spelling the word as "maille" avoids needless confusion and frustration when searching the Internet for "armour". With regard to its origins, as usual I went to the bookshelf and started looking things up.

Yes indeed, it's Old French. My New Elizabethan Dictionary (circa 1950) says so, as does A Short Old French Dictionary for Students (1946, my copy 1985, purchased for a writing project but quite useful for the arms and armour hobby) and it's backed up by the ever-useful OED -- though this last also gives a suggested spelling of, among others, "maylle", which frankly is something I'd rather the re-enactment community didn't know about...

Just for interest, modern French has turned the word into a plural: les mailles, presumably as a reference to the multiple rings which make up the armour; thus the word for hauberk is la cotte de mailles - "a coat of mail(rings)".The English term "mailed fist", however, drops any reference to armour in its French form and become simply la manière forte - "the strong hand" .

To finish, I consulted my German dictionary and found (sorry, Craig) the possible source of "chainmail", since the (modern - but how modern?) German word for mail is der Kettenpanzer - "chain armour", and the word for hauberk is der Kettenhemd -- "chain shirt", a term which I sometimes see used in the more Romantick School of historical and fantasy fiction but fortunately hardly anywhere else. "Mailed fist" translates as die gepanzerte Faust - "the armoured fist", so I suppose that's all right.

In conclusion, therefore, I'll continue to use the traditional spelling in print, and when I'm writing about armour here or in other forums (fora? no, I'm being pedantic enough for one topic) but I'll take everyone's advice, and use both it and the 'antique' spelling when searching the Internet for armour references.

I don't need that much information about post offices anyway...

[Elling Polden]

Now, if mailed someone a bag of rings, and a sett of instructions telling them to attach one ring to the other in the four to one pattern, and then send it to someone else, who would do the same...

My mind is boggling...

[Peter Morwood]

One of the more long-lasting (or at least hard-wearing) chain letters.

Let's not go there....