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David White
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 Posted: Mon 03 Oct, 2005 1:14 pm Post subject: Historic weights for Basket-hilted Broadswords |
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Hi guys,
Need some help here. On another forum, no not that forum, I was talking to a fella about weights of swords.
I said that some baskethilted broadswords were in the 2 1/2 pound range. He said that he's used swords forever
and that was way to heavy for a "single hander"  Can anyone give me references for weights of baskethilted swords.
thanks so much,
dave
On Ne Passe Pas
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Benjamin H. Abbott
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| Posted: Mon 03 Oct, 2005 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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I think they were generally a bit heavier than that, actually. Paul Wanger says 2.6 to 2.9 pounds in his book on George Silver. Many replicas with compex hilts get up to 3 pounds, such the A&A Town Guard Sword and some of the Armour Class baskethilts.
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David White
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| Posted: Mon 03 Oct, 2005 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Benjamin H. Abbott wrote: | | I think they were generally a bit heavier than that, actually. Paul Wanger says 2.6 to 2.9 pounds in his book on George Silver. Many replicas with compex hilts get up to 3 pounds, such the A&A Town Guard Sword and some of the Armour Class baskethilts. |
Hi Benjamin!
that sounds pretty much right on, I'm sure (maybe Mac can help out), that some are in the range I posted above.
I'm just alitttle miffed at being told that b-h broadswords ie, single handed (by the other poster and another site) are much lighter. I posted twice, stating b-h boardsword/backsword and it just didn't seem to sink in.
He seems to be an "expert" after many years of using all types of swords. I just don't buy what he's saying.
thanks,
dave
On Ne Passe Pas
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Mon 03 Oct, 2005 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: Need Help! Historic weights Baskethilted Broadswords |
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| David White wrote: |
...Can anyone give me references for weights of baskethilted swords.
thanks so much,
dave |
Hi Dave...
A while back I plotted the sword weights I could find in publications. I have plotted the data from lightest to heaviest to show the range (this throws some people off because they want to see groupings) However in this configuration you can more easily see the maximum and minimum weight and where the line levels out in the middle represents the median weight for that group.
It looks as though the median for baskethilts is around 2.5 pounds.
For what its worth...
ks
 Attachment: 74.9 KB
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Benjamin H. Abbott
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| Posted: Mon 03 Oct, 2005 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, that's strange. Even without a baskethilt many single handed swords were 2.5 pounds or more. If someone asked me what the standard weight of a singe handed sword was, I'd probably answer that it was about 2.5 pounds.
EDIT: Whoa, interesting graph. I'd love to see the 1.2 pound or the 4.5 pound baskethilt - though I sure wouldn't want either one in a fight.
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Kirk Lee Spencer
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| Posted: Mon 03 Oct, 2005 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Benjamin H. Abbott wrote: |
...I'd love to see the 1.2 pound or the 4.5 pound baskethilt...
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Here you go...
From George C. Neumann's "Swords and Blades of the American Revolution"
ks
Attachment: 82.56 KB
English Horseman Saber c.1750 Length 37.75 inches, Blade Length 32 inches Blade Width 1.25 inches. Weight 1.3 pounds
Attachment: 84.98 KB
English Horseman Saber c.1755 Length 45 inches, Blade length 38.25 inches, Blade Width 1.4 inches, Weight 4.4 pounds
Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Benjamin H. Abbott
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| Posted: Mon 03 Oct, 2005 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting. I couldn't tell by looking at them which was heavier and which was lighter! The basket is clearly more robust on the heavier one, though. What a range...
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David Wilson
Location: In a van down by the river Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 1:09 am Post subject: |
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I handled a sword identical to the second "English Horseman's Saber" -- Actually a Backsword, by Samuel Harvey. It was intended for service, for actual battlefield use. And yet it felt like a boat anchor. One of the worst handling antique swords I've ever handled. Heavy and dead in the hand.
But I'd say most antique basket hilt swords I've handled have averaged around 2.5 lbs -- some heavier, some lighter.
David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe
Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
Last edited by David Wilson on Tue 04 Oct, 2005 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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E.B. Erickson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 6:22 am Post subject: |
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2.5lbs average basket weight is probably close... I think Vince Evans came up with a similar figure at one time on an old SFI thread.
Antique baskets I've handled have ranged from one that's just under 2 lbs (1.8 or 1.9 lbs) to one that's right about 3 lbs.
--ElJay
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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 10:55 am Post subject: |
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For the fun of it .....
34 examples (in Neumann's book) have a combined weight of 76.7 lbs. which would average out at 2.2558 lbs. apiece !
1 @ 1.3
1 @ 1.8
5 @ 2.0
7 @ 2.1
2 @ 2.3
5 @ 2.4
2 @ 2.5
4 @ 2.6
2 @ 2.8
3 @ 3.0
1 @ 3.1
1 @ 4.4
_______
34 @ 76.7 lbs.
I stink at math, so feel free to shoot holes in my tally ;-) Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
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David White
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| Posted: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Hi guys,
thanks so much for all the help. I knew that I wasn't a dummy and I'd done my homework!
I just wanted to double check before continuing my conversation with this fella.
Hey Mac, whats the name of Neumann's book.
thanks,
dave
I can't believe one weighted in at 1.3#
On Ne Passe Pas
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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David White
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| Posted: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 11:28 am Post subject: |
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duh, thanks Nathan 
dave
On Ne Passe Pas
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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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L to R : 2.5 lbs., 1 lb. 8-1/2 oz., 3 lbs. 2-3/4 oz. (blade shortened sum 6" inches +/-)
Attachment: 116.05 KB
Attachment: 109.98 KB
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
Last edited by Thomas McDonald on Wed 05 Oct, 2005 6:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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David White
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| Posted: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Wow! thanks Mac-
Those photos do give you a pretty good perspective on weights. do you know if its mainly the blade or hilt or
a combination of both?
thanks,
dave
On Ne Passe Pas
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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| David White wrote: | Wow! thanks Mac-
Those photos do give you a pretty good perspective on weights. do you know if its mainly the blade or hilt or
a combination of both? thanks, dave |
Hi Dave
I've never weighed the individual components on these pieces but my guess would be that the weight is fairly distributed between blade & hilt, albeit in large, medium, & small !
The horseman basket is a good sized piece of steel, but so is the blade that's mounted to it (ie: thick ).
The 19th century basket is very light, with its elements being very thin, but , again, so is the blade !
The early 'Irish' hilt is the nicest of the 3, with both blade & hilt being very proportionate to each other, feeling & handling like someone really knew their stuff (sword making-wise ;-)
Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
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David White
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| Posted: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Mac!
Pretty much what I thought. The horseman basket/blade does look thick. I've been away for awhile so I'll just
ask, are those yours now?
thanks,
dave
On Ne Passe Pas
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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Dave
Yer welcome, laddie !
Aye, they be caretaker Mac's !
I picked up the Irish hilted backsword via Rob at Lion Gate Arms & Armour,Inc..
The 19th century 'Regimental' broadsword via Freeman Auction House, during one of their "live auctions" on Ebay !
The English horseman backsword was an Ebay grab !
Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Tue 04 Oct, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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A few more ....
Mac
Attachment: 82.29 KB
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Wed 05 Oct, 2005 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Just to add a few more mean & lean baskethilts to the mix ....
Awhile back, Vince had sent me some weight figures on a few original Scottish baskethilts that a friend had let him study !
They weighed in at :
2 lbs. 7-1/4 oz.(Stirling hilt broadsword)
2 lbs. 1-1/4 oz.(Stirling hilt broadsword)
1 lb. 15-1/2 oz. (Stirling S-hilt broadsword)
2 lbs. - 1/2 oz. (Stirling backsword)
And an original WAS broadsword at approx. 2 lbs. 10-3/4 oz. ( figuring about 2 oz. for grip & capstan)
Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
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