[Mark Morris]

Can anyone recommend a reproduction helmet for Western Martial Arts sparring. I am looking for advice on the best style to wear for protection and would like to find one under $200.00 if possible.
Thanks for your help.

[Bill Grandy]

Hi Mark,
What kind of sparring? What types of weapons are you using? How are you sparring?

I don't mean to throw a bunch of questions out at you, but these are necessary to know for us to help. For what it's worth, I've never used a full out helmet, and have always relied on a standard 3 weapons fencing mask for shinai, rapier, wooden wasters and limited steel work. But if your WMA training is more focused on living history presentations, you may want something that fits your time period better, or if you're working on armoured combat techniques, than you'll obviously need a helmet that fits the particular style.

[Carl Goff]

Illusion Armoring http://www.illusionarmoring.com offers a cheap bascinet for under $200. Only problem is, it has a bar grill. If you don't mind that, you're fine.

[R Smith]

In my opinion a bar grille bascinet does not offer enough safety if you are using steel or aluminum trainers as most hits target the head and taking a thrust through the bars sort of makes the point of the helm moot. What I had done for my sallet was had a strip of perf plate added to the occular which takes out the risk of a point passing in. I also have a hounskull with stop ribs spaced out across the occular every 6mm. This is much more historical then the perf plate on the sallet. I had a company in the Ukraine make that for me and it was only $200 for a padded helm. That company's name is Armour and Castings and they have established a good reputation. They have a web site.

I hope this helps you out.

[Aaron Schnatterly]

Hey, Mark! Welcome to myArmoury!

As Bill said, the question you are asking would benefit from a touch of clarification, as the tool must fit (or be overkill for) the application.

Light sparring at half speed with padded wasters may be possible without any head protection at all, though this is not how I personally work.

Full speed blunt steel free sparring would require far more than just any old helm - something very solid would be much preferred.

Here's what I use (or will be using) for what it's worth...

Light sparring, using wasters, boffers, or blunt steel (at slower speeds) is either a 3 weapons fencing mask (can be had for $100 ballpark) but doesn't offer any back of the head protection. I also add a firefighter's nomex/kevlar hood to remedy that. Another option I have seen is a lacrosse helmet, and these can be had with a polycarbonate occularium, so effectively you have safety glasses with face and head protection.

Heavier work, I will be using a more sturdy piece instead. Currently, I have a full 16th C harness in the finishing stages in Scott's shop at Illusion Armoring, with a close helm with an exchange visor, so I will have both the punched visor and the barred one. This is a lot more than your $200 budget, I know, but I'll address this in a second. Oh, and if I had the funds and level of activity, I would probably go for one of his klappvisor onion-tops.

For very heavy work, or for demonstrations, or just for training in armour, well, I'll have the entire harness.

The bascinet may still work, but I would discuss with Lynette (Scott's wife - very helpful) about your specific needs. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he couldn't make appropriate accomodation for you to provide the level of protection you need - perhaps weld a perforated steel mask inside the bars, for example. The only issue with going custom is that you will encounter a delay due to shop time. It's been something like 10 months on my harness, and it still isn't in my hands. I realize things take time, and I want it right when it comes... waiting still sucks, though. Oh, and yes, there are a lot of other maunfacturers out there who can make something that will be quite suitable, too.

My bottom line advice is this... first determine just what it is that you need. Once you know what that is. If it's an actual helm instead of one of our more modern types (i.e. a fencing mask, lacrosse helm, etc.) spec it out (but remain flexible when you talk to an armourer - they know this stuff better than you or I do, and what does and doesn't work), then find someone you can work with to make it happen.

Good luck, man! And be careful!

[Mark Morris]

I want to thank you all for your informative replies!
You guys are a wealth of information!

I was not able to reply earlier as I had some family business to attend to this past week.

I do appreciate the questions however. They have served to make me really think about what I need and to point out some things I did not consider.

Thanks for the link to Illusion Armory. They look really great.

I am interested in really learning how to use swords. I would like to start with wooden wasters and eventually spar with blunt steel. That will be a ways off however.

While I appreciate the authentic look, I have no need for period authenticity in what I would wear while sparring. I just want to make sure my noggin is protected!

I like the look of the grilled bascinets at Illusion. I can see though that one would need greater face protection when using steel.

I also learned quite a bit while at LanzeFest a few weeks ago in New Glarus, WI. The inability to see well seemed to be real obvious in the jousters and the combat demonstators in full harness.
I spoke to Aaron and Brad of the Racine ARMA group and that is why I think I want to go with a steel helmet. I think it would be interesting to compare the sports helmets though just to see how well they blunt the impact of a waster.

Thanks again!!

[Mark Morris]

Bill Grandy said "What kind of sparring? What types of weapons are you using? How are you sparring?"

I want to learn longsword and single handed sword and shield.
I would start with waster and padded weapons.
I would like to go full speed (with padded weapons and waster) as better technique is learned.

Eventually, some form of sparring with blunt steel would be attempted.

I also thought that it might be wise to wear some kind of gorget while sparring.

[Aaron Schnatterly]

[Bill Grandy]

If you are intending to learn period unarmoured longsword, I'd recommend a simple fencing mask rather than a helmet, at least to start out with. Much better visibility than a close faced helmet, less encumbering, and a little closer to truly being unarmoured. That said, a mask isn't nearly as protective as a steel helmet, and they don't protect the back of the head, so you need to make sure your partner understands that (which generally isn't a problem, but it is something to keep in mind). Masks are generally less expensive, too (you can probably find used ones cheaply on ebay even). In my opinion a helmet is just too bulky and prohibitive for practicing an unarmoured style unless if you have one custom made specifically for this... but then you're looking at big bucks to pay for it. Steel helmets also tend to destroy wooden wasters and padded swords a lot faster as well.

If you want to practice armoured longsword, though, well, then you definately need a helmet... but you probably already guessed that. I know www.fortharmory.com has come out with some inexpensive stainless steel helms. I think these are geared a little towards the SCA style of fighting, and are a little on the hefty side because of this, but the prices are just barely above the price you're looking at, and they look decent enough, particularly if you aren't concerned with total historical accuracy.

Also important is good hand protection. For basic stuff, I really recommend the padded sparring gauntlets from www.revival.us

Are you looking to join a group or start one on yourself? If you're looking to join a group, then I don't recommend buying any of this stuff until you find out what they use. If you're starting a group, then that's a different story, and I still think fencing masks are the easier/cheaper way to go. Just my opinions.

[Aaron Schnatterly]

[Bill Grandy]

[Bill Grandy]

[Aaron Schnatterly]

[Aaron Schnatterly]

[Anton de Vries]

An aspect I haven't seen mentioned is pain.
Personally I feel that a good hit with any sparring tool should hurt like hell. This really forces the 'victim' to perfect his moves quickly, both on a conscious and subconscious level.
Take for example the rubber-swords-that-don't-hurt : those can be useful for safely trying out techniques, but personally I couldn't care less if I got hit, and my subconscious won't blink either.
This encourages sloppy technique and motivation, and from what I've seen this quickly shows.

Injury should of course be prevented at all cost, and therefore some areas of the body can't do without good protection.
Safe really IS better than sorry, but don't go overboard on protection as that has some less desirable side effects.

[Christian Henry Tobler]

Hello Bill et. al.,

I'm a little bit leary of using fencing masks with longswords, particularly for the German tradition. If you strike a Zwerchhau from the right, followed by one from the left, the 2nd blow can tend to hit the right rear quarter of your opponent's head, which is unprotected by the mask.

I'm also a little worried about power levels and the mask itself. Like anything else, of course, you can do this if you use lots of control.

All the best,

CHT

[Bill Grandy]

Hey Christian,
I actually agree with your general point. I'm actually looking into rear head protection, like the kind Sean Hayes uses. That said, I still like the masks more than steel helmets for general use, particularly with lighter bouting weapons (shinai), provided that, as you say, everyone has practiced enough to understand CONTROL. The amount of damage the mask can take, though, is very valid. I used to demonstrate to students the importance of control by taking a beat up old mask of mine and "baseball batting" it with a "safe" shinai. It would fly across the room and was completely caved in. Despite this, I feel masks are safe enough, provided, once again, the participants understand and practice control.

[Joe Fults]

A bit off topic, but since hand protection was mentioned, I recommend police issue tactical entry gloves. I got a pair from Galls on recommendation of some other ARMA members, and they work pretty well. Less bulky than lacrosse gloves, still good protection and fairly durable.

[Mark Morris]

Thanks again for all the help on this question.
The members of this forum have been very welcoming and helpful.

My next question is...

Is a leather liner in a helmet all one needs? Or is there a suspension system one can get or a padding system (like a modern day football helmet)?
I realise that one wears an arming cap but is more padding necessary?

Anyone have any familiarity with the Museum Replicas Kettle Hat?
Would a Kettle Hat be good enough for light or lower speed sparring with padded weapons and/or wasters?

[Lloyd Clark]

Check here:

http://armourandcastings.com/catalog/product_...ucts_id=48

Great armour, great customer service, and super fast turn around!