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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > It's not just swords Reply to topic
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Sat 06 Dec, 2003 6:27 pm    Post subject: It's not just swords         Reply with quote

Hello Everyone,
There is so much attention given to the sword on this forum and in the community in general, and I think it may be disproportionally so. I, as a collector of reproduction weapons and armour of the 11th, 12th, 13th, 13th, and 14th centuries (that means the 1000's, 1100's. 1200's, and 1300's), realize that the sword was carried by only a certain portion of the retinue of the period. So where are the manufacturer's examples of the more common weapons wielded in battle during this period? We do see examples here and there of maces and axes but strangely they seem to be dedicated to the viking age and then fast forward to the high Rennesaince. I for one, am eager for this market of the weapons of the afore mentioned centuries. I believe that an understanding of the sword and its function must include an exploration of many of the weapons that would have been encountered. I know that others have noticed this.

Thanks, Jeremy
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J. Padgett




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PostPosted: Sat 06 Dec, 2003 9:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

While the sword has a mystique all its own, I too have an interest in the other weapons of the day such as axes, maces, flails, spears, and other various polearms. The market for reproductions of these items is arguably smaller, and so of course we do not see many examples as compared to swords. As for most examples seeming to be from Viking or Renaissance eras, well some of the most well known styles of axes were used by Norse and Saxon peoples so it is natural to find many examples of these, and the later periods were when the use of mass weapons such as mace really came into its own against sophisticated plate armor. Plus there are more examples of these Renaissance items still extant, and they usually have an aesthetic all their own.

Arms and Armor has a few of these other kinds of weapons. Most seem to be from 15th or 16th centuries, but they have an Iberian Mace of the 13th, and a spear suitable for the 12th - 14th. Looking around a few other places yields a few early Franciscas and the occasional Lochaber. Lutel has a mace of 13th century design. Definitely very sparse when compared to swords.

Still, aside from spears and bows, I'm not well versed on what the more common classes of infantry used throughout medieval Europe. Falchions? Improvised weapons made from farming implements? Axes I would imagine were common too, being a tool a commoner might already have. Anybody have some input on this?

It would be interesting to see how well a company making reproduction weapons of striclty the 'peasant' classe would do.
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Sat 06 Dec, 2003 10:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It might be a good idea to get yourself a good spear and then wander down to the local agricultural implement supply place. I suspect that you will find a good deal of what your average peasant carried into battle there. Happy I second the motion to take a peek at www.arms-n-armor.com they seem to have the largest selection of non sword weaponry that I've noticed being produced. I believe the folks at Lutel also carry some of that sort of thing at www.lutel.cz
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Sat 06 Dec, 2003 10:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oops I see in the other thread that you are already familiar with the guys at Arms and Armor. You might want to give lutel a peek anyway though. They do have some nice looking pole arms etc.
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Joe Fults




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PostPosted: Sun 07 Dec, 2003 12:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Probably just a simple issue of market demand. If more people wanted other weapons and were willing to pay enough to get them, more alteratives would be out there.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Geoff Wood




Location: UK
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PostPosted: Sun 07 Dec, 2003 1:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul Binns can do a variety of polearms.
http://www.paul-binns-swords.co.uk/polearms.html
I've got a spear head on order with him. He's happy to discuss requirements.
Geoff
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Björn Hellqvist
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PostPosted: Sun 07 Dec, 2003 6:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It is my goal to own at least one specimen of every major weapon type. I'll order a pole-axe and halberd from Lutel, and would like to get hold on a nice mace, then my collection will be fairly complete.
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Sun 07 Dec, 2003 6:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello everyone,
Thank you for your feedback. I have checked with Lutel but have not purchased anything yet. One thing at a time you know. But I believe that I should emphasize that my post is not merely related to the peasantry, which of course would have carried the barest essentials. I am talking knights and noble nights and men at arms not of the noble class but nevertheless skilled warriors. These guys carried weapons other than the sword. It is my, perhaps mistaken impression, that the sword was a weapon of the nobility and of the man at arms that may have acquired one in battle or as inheritance. Let us remember that during the era of a defined and fixed feudal syster (1000-1300c) that steel was a very precious commodity indeed. Bjorn- here is what I may do regarding a fine example of an early mace- call the folks at A&A and commision a design shown in one of Oakeshott's works. "The Archeology of Weapons" shows a nice simple mace head from the 1200's. I believe the guys at A&A would give a reasonable price. So let's keep talking about this, both to educate me Wink and to broaden the interests of our community. Thanks again. Jeremy
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Sun 07 Dec, 2003 8:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Jeremy, which book which page?
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2003 6:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello Russ,
This mace which I will probably eventually commission is in "The Archeology of Weapons," as I am at work (and workin hard!) I do not have the book with me. But I think if may be 258? The only thing though is that this is just the mace head so you can't tell if the shaft would have been wood or steel. . .
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2003 10:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Cool. Thanks I'll check that out...
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Nathan Bell





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PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2003 4:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You also might want to have a look over at www.manningimperial.com. He has a few nice selections. Also look under his "miscellaneous" weapons---those "French heavy weapons" look very nice to me.

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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2003 5:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thak you Nathan!
Have you bought anything from these guys? Does this company have knowledge to deal with a request from a certain date of era? Thanks Jeremy
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Björn Hellqvist
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2003 7:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Bell wrote:
You also might want to have a look over at www.manningimperial.com. He has a few nice selections. Also look under his "miscellaneous" weapons---those "French heavy weapons" look very nice to me.



Seems like someone has looked too much at the pics in the Maciejowski Bible... Wink There are some pretty scary and amazing weapons there.

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Nathan Bell





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PostPosted: Tue 09 Dec, 2003 4:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:
Thak you Nathan!
Have you bought anything from these guys? Does this company have knowledge to deal with a request from a certain date of era? Thanks Jeremy


The Hod Hill sword and the large celtic spear head pictured are both mine. Work is excellent.

I think Craig is pretty good with viking/norman era and some high middle ages stuff. He also works very well from reference material.

Drop him an e-mail, he's a nice guy to work with.
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