[D. Rosen]

I've recently been looking for a buckler to accompany a cut & thrust sword I intend to buy. I have seen the Arms & Armor ones and have considered their English Buckler, but I was wondering if anyone knew of a reliable and friendly armorer within the United States (I loved Valentine Armouries' buckler, but the shipping, etc. fees changed my mind) that makes a good looking, sturdy, and reasonably priced buckler. Thanks!!!!

[Patrick Kelly]

http://www.albion-swords.com/armor/mercenary/buckler.htm

[Joe Fults]

http://www.arms-n-armor.com/2000/catalog/item046.html

http://www.arms-n-armor.com/2000/catalog/item129.html

http://www.arms-n-armor.com/2000/catalog/item020.html

http://www.arms-n-armor.com/2000/catalog/item045.html

[Mark Mattimore]

http://www.gdfb.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_copy_o...apons.html

I've never ordered from them but several people here have.

[D. Rosen]

I have seen Albion's Mercenary's Tailor's armor many times and admired several of their pieces, but their buckler is too 'rough' for me. I have found that bucklers are extremely difficult to find. But in all cases, I am trying to stick with American armorers,etc. and a price range up to about $100 USD (Like Arms & Armor's English Buckler = $96) Thanks!

[Alex Oster]

Thread: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...er+buckler
Topic:
Where to buy: http://www.outfit4events.com/index.php?main_p...cts_id=569

[Jeff Johnson]

The tahlhoffer buckler looks cool, but 7 KG?! If they could lighten the gage on the steel and work it down to half that, I'd be tempted.

I own the A&A English buckler, but it is likewise too heavy, and it's spun-construction - a historical. I still use it for sparring fun, but can't take it to reenacting events.

To put things bluntly, ALL of mercenary's Tailor armor looks like crap. I've always wondered why a class place like Albion keeps such garbage in their catalog. It's a detriment to their image. Lest people think me unnecessarily mean, I've discussed this with several armor afficianados and they have made much more scathing remarks. It's not that it's "Munitions" grade (you expect roughness with armor for the lower classes). It's that the shape and patterns are just wrong for historical armor.

[Alex Oster]

Well it could be proximity, an it could be pre-existing freindships. Either way, I can only hope that with such affilliation, M.tailor will be able to survive and improve existing methods, designs, and style.... just like albion did in the first incarnations of their existence...

But then again, I'm far from buying armor.... although I'm digging the Maxmillian armor there http://www.outfit4events.com/index.php?main_p...cts_id=318

yummy

[Patrick Kelly]

Alex,

I like the visor on the maximilian harness, it's an interesting variation that I haven't seen before.

Jeff,

I do think you're being a bit harsh. Albion keeps it around for the same reason that Merc. T. makes it: the stuff sells. Would I buy it? Honestly no. I have a couple of their wooden shields and I find them to be good solid affordable examples of the type. Mr. Rosen asked for a good looking, sturdy, and reasonably priced buckler. The MT buckler may come up a bit short on this first requirement but it will meet the other two. (and I wouldn't buy this MT buckler either because I don't like the way it looks)

On the other hand, their armor doesn't appeal to me personally. It simply doesn't meet my needs. However, there are people who have a totally different set of requirements than you or I. It's all about having options and choices, and the MT products fill a definite nitch in the market.

[D. Rosen]

Once again, I am looking for a United States vendor/armorer, although Outfit 4 Event's stock of bucklers is extremely attractive (I have seen their armor on By The Sword)...and even there, their price exceeds my budget. I have heard nothing but good things about Mercenary's Tailor. If you look around this and other forums, you will find tons of good reviews. Plus, if you look at the Merc. tailor's official website's gallery ( http://www.merctailor.com/originals.php ) , you will see that several of his pieces are based upon real armor....including his rather odd looking sallet. His breastplate and pauldrons appeal to me, but as you said, other pieces of his range from decent looking to unattractive...but all that depends on the eye of beholder.

I am still looking for a buckler, preferably round with an umbo. I have ruled out MT's, and am considering Therion's, A & A's English, and MRL's.

PS: What is the period range for the A & A English Buckler...I want it for an Elizabethan Renaissance style costume. Thanks[/u][/b]

[Joe Fults]

This is essentially hearsay, but I've heard online and from some folks doing stage work first hand that the MRL bucklers are not very durable. Take this post with a big grain of salt because I can't provide any first hand experience of my own and I don't have names of people to refer you to.

[Gordon Frye]

[Sean Flynt]

Have you looked at Alchem's?

http://www.alcheminc.com/bucklers.html

12", 1.7 lbs and $55

I've dealt with Alchem and found them to be very responsive and helpful. The fencing rapier and main gauche I owned were very well made and sturdy.

Also, dig that crazy pike!

[Russ Thomas]

I am affraid that I cannot help you with a US. made example, but here is a buckler that I make, if it might possibly be of any interest............

http://www.living-history.no/wahre/sb1.jpg

If you click on my website address at the foot of this post, you will see the buckler and its details at the foot of the armour page.


My apologies for the seemingly shameless plug

Regards as ever,

Russ

[Jean Thibodeau]

Jeff;

I respect your right to your opinion but if you open a can of worms you should at least give us specifics as what you judge as " CRAPY " depends on your expectations.

Quote:

" To put things bluntly, ALL of mercenary's Tailor armour looks like crap. I've always wondered why a class place like Albion keeps such garbage in their catalog. It's a detriment to their image. Lest people think me unnecessarily mean, I've discussed this with several armor afficianados and they have made much more scathing remarks. It's not that it's "Munitions" grade (you expect roughness with armor for the lower classes). It's that the shape and patterns are just wrong for historical armor. "

Now how can someone like Allan of M.T. rebut your statements or at least explain his approach which is obviously different than your expectations and how can we judge what criteria you are using to say that " shape and patterns are wrong for historical armour " without some specifics or examples !?

What I don't like at all, and I guess I have the right to ALSO to not like something, is: Gossip by bringing up " OTHER " armour aficionados without more than saying that you know others who also think M.T. armour is crap.

In a formal debate bringing up the argument of higher authority is considerer like the weakest form of proof: Unspecified "aficionados" to trash someone's work is an example of bad form.

You may have valid things to say but all we have here is an opinion stated as proof.

In any case I don't want to start some sort of flame war here but I couldn't just let it slide without at least a comment

[Patrick Kelly]

I would also advise cooler heads to, well, keep their cool.

However, Jean brings up a very good point. Jeff, rather than simply stating that a product is "crap" and "garbage" why don't you tell us exactly how you think it's lacking and in what way? Honestly, and I mean no offense, the first approach makes you come off as an elitist jack-a$$. The second approach would allow you to clarify your statement and turn this into an educational opportunity at the same time.

As I said before: most of MT's product line might not be my thing, but I firmly feel that it has value and that there's a place for it in the market. On a personal note, Allan Senefelder (of MT) has also been extremely helpful and encouraging to me in some of my personal projects. He's gone way beyond the call on some issues and I wouldn't have completed some projects without his unsolicited assistance.

[Risto Rautiainen]

Hello.

Bucklers are not that complicated, so why not do it your self? It would be an excellent starter project. I understand that living in an apartment would make it a bit difficult, but not impossible. Here's one pattern for a buckler (nevermind the carbonsteel, get some 16ga mildsteel):

http://www.armourarchive.org/patterns/buckler_sinric/

And here you'll find some pics of two bucklers I made (sorry, there's no english text, and no it's not a good idea to make it in two pieces):

http://personal.inet.fi/hima/risto-menninkain...uckler.htm

[David Evans]

Just as an aside...Does anyone know of any source for a Marozzo style rectangular buckler?

[Bill Grandy]

I've used an MRL buckler and the only problem I've ever had was one of the bolts that holds the boss in place stripped and popped out the first time I used it. This happened to a couple of us who were using them. This is easily replaced, and we've never had any problems since. They're sturdy enough for bouting.

By the way, there's also Purpleheart Armoury who make both a hardened leather one and a wooden one with a steel boss: www.woodenswords.com

[Jeff Johnson]

Yes, I'm a confirmed elitist armor snob. And yes, I'm feeling a bit nasty and shouldn't make sweeping pronouncements. And, yes, again, I've strayed from the topic of the single buckler into an unfortunate place.. I knew I was opening a can of worms posting a negative opinion, and I'm going to compound the problem by trying to explain the basis for my statement. And, yes, I'm positive he's a nice guy.

"All" was too sweeping for me to document everything. I'll try to explain myself a bit better. First, several pieces are fantasy or patterned from Victorian creations. Aside from that, so many of the shapes are just so... wrong. Clunky... Imagine how you feel looking at a sword from "The Noble Collection" after holding a good authentic reproduction. That is how most of this stuff strikes me. For concrete examples:



Ringmail. Pure Braveheart fantasy. Ringmail did not exist except in Victorian productions and D&D.



"Modeled on an orginal piece in our collection"? If so - another Victorian production, though it seems more likely it was patterned after a model from "Shrek"



Rolled Upper edges and suspender belts on Placates?!? Not on any surviving artifacts, or depicted in art.

As for the construction, as I've said, rough from the hammer is fine for amny applications, but someone who has handled the stuff has commented that the unrolled edges are sharp.

I'd not have said anything if it were obviously advertised for the Renfair crowd, and not advertised as "modeled after originals", or associated with such an otherwise exemplary vendor as Albion, but there's my opinion. For all that it's worth. I'd also add that in the world of historical reproductions, the general practice is for the burden of proof for the provenence of the item being reproduced is up to the vendor, not the customer or busy-body third party like me.