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Caleb Hallgren




Location: DeKalb, IL
Joined: 01 Aug 2004

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul, 2005 11:57 am    Post subject: Islamic-Arabic Swords and their balance         Reply with quote

One thing I have noticed in regard to the swords of Medieval Arabic Cultures is that their straight swords in particular have either a very small pommel or nearly none at all.

Has anyone handled an antique, or even a high quality replica of such a sword? What effect did this seemingly lack of a counterbalance have on their handling and balance characteristics?

Thanks!
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Hisham Gaballa





Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 508

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul, 2005 12:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm going to be rather unhelpful here, I have never handled one of these weapons, so I can't answer your question.

However not all Islamic swords have no pommel, swords depicted in early miniatures and metalwork often have quite prominant pommels, as do 15th century Mamluk swords. It's mainly 16th century Ottoman sword grips that seem to have no pommel, even later Ottoman swords have a "pistol-shaped" grip which has a sort of pommel.





I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful.
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Caleb Hallgren




Location: DeKalb, IL
Joined: 01 Aug 2004

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul, 2005 12:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I do appreciate the reply, but the main swords that I have seen with realtive lack-of-pommels are mamluk ones from the 1300's-1500's.

This is a site where I can refer you to some pics:

users.stlcc.edu/mfuller/ turk/TopkapiArms2.html



 Attachment: 32.01 KB
Topkapi4AbbSwords.jpg

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Hisham Gaballa





Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 508

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul, 2005 1:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I stand corrected Happy.

Actually though in many cases those aren't the original hilts, those are often early swords (some date back as far as the 8th century) which have had their hilts replaced by the Ottomans in the early 16th century.




Many of these old swords had "holy relic" status and were no longer meant to be used in battle. Those very rare early hilts which do survive, often have pommels.

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Caleb Hallgren




Location: DeKalb, IL
Joined: 01 Aug 2004

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul, 2005 1:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Interesting....

You certainly seem to have a wealth of pictures on this topic, is this from a museum catalog of yours?
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul, 2005 1:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

These images are awesome.

Please get in the habit of including credits / copyright info for all copyrighted photos posted.

Thanks!

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Hisham Gaballa





Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 508

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul, 2005 1:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
These images are awesome.

Please get in the habit of including credits / copyright info for all copyrighted photos posted.

Thanks!


I'm sorry about that, it was pure lazyness on my part. Blush

Those pictures are from "Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths" by Unsal Yucel, published in Istanbul in 2001. All the swords examined in the book are from the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul. This museum probably has the biggest collection of early Islamic arms and armour in the world, it is somewhere I am really looking forward to visiting one day, wife and children permitting Big Grin.
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