[Lancelot Chan]

I've received my pack of flexbar hardness testing files today and did the test for the following swords at my home. Here are the results:

My tinker : above 50 below 55 HRC (2001 model, forte)

Atrim short sword : above 50 below 55 HRC (forte)

Albion Brescia Spadona : 40 to 45 HRC, seems closer to 40 though at forte, 55 HRC at the edge 4 inches from the tip

Fred Chen 1050 Carp Jian : above 50 below 55 HRC (forte)

Paul Chen Pudao: above 50 below 55 HRC, seems closer to 50 though (forte)

Arms and Armors German Bastard Sword : 45 to 50 HRC (forte)

Lung Chuan consignment swords ( http://www.rsw.com.hk/so5.htm ) : below 40 HRC (forte)

[Kenneth Enroth]

The Albion is pretty soft. It wouldn't hurt to increase the hardness a few points.

[Nathan Robinson]

[Kenneth Enroth]

[Nathan Robinson]

[Lancelot Chan]

Nathan was right that I didn't ask for a sharper edge than original.

BTW, since the test require a small surface, it couldn't be done RIGHT on the edge line. I did it as close to the edge as possible, though. For example, in the Spadona's case, I did it along the secondary bevel area it has. Also double checked on the flat side too. Not big difference. (can't notice any difference... and ended up scratching my sword a larger area hahha)

Yet, to minimize the scratches' visible effects, I did these hardness test on the forte area, not at the tip of the sword. But I dun think an unhardened tang would mean an unhardened forte either. I avoid doing this too close to the cross guard either just to be fair.

[Kenneth Enroth]

[Nathan Robinson]

[Thomas McDonald]

Thanks for your report, Lance !
The interesting thing about your Bresia reading is that it's probably spot on to the originals rc !

Mac

[Michael Pearce]

HRc40-45 is spot on in the 'average' hardness range for the (relatively few) medieval swords that have been tested to the best of my knowledge. One cannot fault Albion if this is the intended hardness done in the interestss of historical accuracy. However this makes it somewhat unsuited to Mr.Chan's- and perhaps other customer's needs. If this is deliberate it would be a good idea for Albion's marketing to reflect this so that furure customers with needs similar to Mr.Chans will not be disssapointed.

[Lancelot Chan]

Martial Art Swords Sun Flower Classic Katana : 55 to 50 HRC at edge, close to 55 HRC. Spine 45 to 50 HRC.

[Angus Trim]

[Jean Thibodeau]

From collecting mostly modern folding knives and fighters I was used to consider 55rc as minimal acceptable hardness and 58rc to 60rc as " normal " .

I have now gotten used to the idea that swords around 50rc is both historically correct and a better balance between hardness and flexibility: Now low 40rc and 30rc seem rather " SOFT "

Now the hardness scale may not be very linear as in 25rc is half as hard as 50rc. ( I just don't know ???? )

What is the harness of dead soft un-heatreated 1075 ?

I assume from other posts that there is more difference between a dead soft blade and 40rc than there is berween 50rc and 58rc.

So how soft is SOFT, 30rc to 40rc ???

Now I can see that for reasons of historical accuracy many collectors would want swords to have a hardness the same as that of an original. Personally I like having the sword look exactly like the historical one it is duplicating but wouldn't mind having it harder if harder, within reason, made it a better sword. Hey, if it could be made of " UNOBTAMIUN " that would cut diamonds like butter, would never need sharpening, and could support the weight of an M1 Abrams tank without bending more than an inch I wouldn't mind that at all.

Well if Lancelot's sword has a softer than Albion SPECIFICATIONS for this sword + being ground with a finer edge than standard ( Honest mistake there. ) I think a replacement sword should at least be considered.

For the use Lancelot intended this may not be the ideal sword considering the cost. ( Unless he is O.K. with the fact that frequent use will do some damage to the sword, as we have already discussed too much already. )

[Angus Trim]

[Thomas Hoogendam]

Oke guys, this is making me a bit un-easy. I was planning on ordering an Albion Knight. But after reading this, I'm getting a bit ancious.

[Joe Fults]

Intersting stuff in this discussion. I commend Lance for taking this initiative. Now we need to be patient since all specualtion right now is based on a sample of 1, with no word from the maker whether the subject sword is representative of what they are trying to achieve.

*edit to fix spelling.

[G. Scott H.]

All we can do is speculate, until somebody from Albion chimes in. Interesting to note the hardness of the Chen Pudao. There's been some complaint in the past about the padao and it's shorter brother, the dadao, being too soft. I woudn't call 50+RC "too soft." The dadao and pudao are some of the few Asian weapons that really interest me, and that I've considered buying, so this is good news. Thanks, Lance!

[Nathan Robinson]

[Michael Pearce]

'As rolled' 5160 SS is considered 'half-hard' and typically arrives at my shop with a hardness of approximately HRc 23-35. Gus's sub-anneal reduces this and stress relieves the steel- not necessary for me as our processes differ. 'Dead-soft' 1075 is likely to be in the HRc13-18 range- but as Gus specified, the machines used to test on the Rockwell scale become less accurate below a certain threshold hardness.

Thomas- I would not worry too much as yet- this is after all only one sword. Heat treatment of swords is tricky, and there have been no other substantiated claims of softness of thier swords. It could be an isolated incident. If you are nervous simply ask Albion to determine the blades hardness or simply agree to accept the return of the sword or to replace it under warranty if it is found to be too soft. Given Albion's record for customer service I doubt this will be a problem.

[Kenneth Enroth]

If the historically accurate hardness ranges from the mid 30's to the mid 50's IMO modern swords should be in the upper range, not the lower.