Jacobite dirk picture set -- myArmoury.com

Todd Salazar · Posted: Tue 05 Apr, 2005 8:32 pm Post subject: Jacobite dirk picture set

Hello everyone,

It was delivered today. For a Scottish dirk from the 17th century, it is in remarkable condition. I hope everyone enjoys the pictures as much as I enjoyed taking them. I hope that it will be an inspiration to all of you. By the way, in closer investigation of the pommel, it appears that some type of cloth was inserted between the brass cap and the wood handle. I thought this was an interesting addition. Let me know what you think! Happy

Todd Salazar · Posted: Tue 05 Apr, 2005 8:40 pm Post subject: Jacobite dirk picture set #2

The second set of pictures! Enjoy! Happy

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

I merged your two topics because there is no reason to have multiple topics regarding the same thing.

-

Wow. I really like that dirk quite a bit. Can you please supply more information, such as the measurements?

Todd Salazar · Last edited by Todd Salazar on Tue 05 Apr, 2005 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

Pommel width: 1 7/8 inches
Nut width: 5/8 inches
Wood handle length: 3 inches
Blade length: 15 1/2 inches
Blade width at widest point 1 5/8 inches
Brass mount between handle and blade: 1 5/8 by 1/4 by 1/4 inches

During closer examination, I have found several interesting design elements. The central fuller runs down the blade approximately 4 inches. In addition, the etching that was done on the flat brass edge is elaborate and exquisite. The brass pommel cap has some interesting designs and has a type of fabric between it and the handle. The nut is also very interesting. The handle is somewhat worn but it is in very good condition.
Big Grin

Todd Salazar · Last edited by Todd Salazar on Tue 05 Apr, 2005 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

The handle of this dirk must have been made for somebody with a very small hand. The length of the blade more than makes-up for the lack of handle however. The total length of the dirk is 19 1/4 inches with an approximate three inch handle and 15 1/2 inch blade!

Allen Johnson · Posted: Tue 05 Apr, 2005 9:17 pm Post subject:

Looks great! Very nice. What tartan is that? I really like that colour!

Todd Salazar · Posted: Tue 05 Apr, 2005 9:21 pm Post subject:

It's the ancient hay clan tartan.

Chris Goerner · Posted: Wed 06 Apr, 2005 2:18 am Post subject:

Wow, Todd -- that is one nice dirk! Congratulations! I particularly like the pommel cap and capstan. The blade is quite interesting too. Nice how the carving on the spine continues up the side of the haunches. It certainly is not your "run of the mill" dirk!

Henrik Bjoern Boegh · Posted: Wed 06 Apr, 2005 7:59 am Post subject:

...wOw...

Stunning!

Congratulations!

Todd, that's one beautyful dirk!
All those marvelous details....

Cheers,
Henrik

Steve Grisetti · Posted: Wed 06 Apr, 2005 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Jacobite dirk picture set

Thomas McDonald · myArmoury Alumni

Todd Salazar · Posted: Fri 08 Apr, 2005 9:49 pm Post subject:

Hi Steve,

I'm not sure if the cloth in the pommel is a typical feature. I've seen a lot of dirks and I've never seen one with cloth in the pommel. I was a bit surprised by it actually. I thought perhaps somebody placed it there during a later repair but a friend examined the nut closely and felt that it has never been removed. He also felt that the cloth was probably close to a red color in it's day. Of course, with time it has faded. My friend and I looked at it for quite a while and he was amazed at the artistic vision in the brass work on the pommel and blade along with the carving on the handle. However, I'm baffled about the reasons for the small handle (only three inches long). Perhaps it was made for a very important person's child. I'm not sure. The blade is very long for a child's dirk. I also believe that because the handle was so small may be the reason for the outstanding condition and preservation. Basically, nobody but a child could use it!

Thomas McDonald · myArmoury Alumni

Thomas McDonald · myArmoury Alumni

P.S.
Judging the grip with the measurement you gave on the blades width leads me to believe it's within normal specs of period pieces ..... but I will be curious to hear the exact overall length ?

Alot of folks tend to believe that ones hand should fit between the haunch & pommel on these dirks, and that anything smaller had to be for a small person, this is just not the case !
( I compare this train of thought to the Viking hammer grip issue ;-)
Fighting dirks of this period were purposely built to these specs , and they have a history of working just fine & dandy !

Mac

P.P.S.

I have a picture of my VE briar wood dirk's grip next to two originals at the Museum of Scotland, one of which is the afformentioned 2:6 pierced pommel/cloth piece that is in the CTSATS book, and all three measure in right about 4" inches!

Grip - 4" (pommel cap to end of brass throat)
Wood area - 3 1/2"

Todd Salazar · Posted: Sun 10 Apr, 2005 9:40 pm Post subject:

Hello Mac,

I took some additional measurements this evening and found that from top of cap to the end of the square brass mount(where the blade meets the brass mount) is exactly 3 and 1/4 inches.

I have one additional question for you. I have been looking at the piercing work done on a number of basket hilts and I was wondering if it might be possible to identify the possible location of where brass work might have been done? For example, on page 371 of Richard Bezdek's, Swords and Sword Makers of England and Scotland, there is a sword with the T-shaped 'heart' piercings in the basket similar to the T-shaped hearts on the end of the pommel in my dirk. Bezdek also states that this sword has a Edinburgh-style basket hilt. Therefore, is it safe to say that the brass piercings on my dirk might have a connection to Edinburgh, Scotland?

I made one other observation that I thought I might run by you. I also know that there are a couple of similar late sevententh century dirks in the National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh, Scotland (page 62 in Scottish Swords and Dirks by John Wallace). I believe that the dirk I have in my posession might be later than these two dirks because of the brass mount that sits between the blade and the start of the handle. However, it was probably made by the same group dirk makers as these two other dirks. I didn't know if this might be a safe assumption.

Thanks for your time with my questions and ideas! Happy

Thomas McDonald · myArmoury Alumni

Hi Todd

We had a discussion awhile back concerning Edinburgh baskethilts ;
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...=edinburgh

It would be nice to able to put alot of this stuff into a neat little box and say "if they have this feature they are that, or that feature it's this" but I truely believe it's impossible given all the cross-pollination of styles that have occured with these things ! The only real certainty seems to come with pieces that are actually signed by known makers, companies, governments, or towns, etc! ( and even they can be suspect ?)
Everything else tends to be speculation, guesswork, or fabrication ?

So that's a long way of saying ..... I'm not sure ? :-) Mac

Todd Salazar · Posted: Tue 12 Apr, 2005 8:45 am Post subject:

Hello everyone,

I guess that my Scottish dirk that was sold in the Freemans auction came from the Park Lane Arms Fair on Ralph Parr's stall (http://www.fischerauktionen.ch/news/parklane.htm) in London. I was told this information by a Dr. Tobias Capwell (A.K.A. Toby) the Curator of Arms & Armour of the Glasgow Museums in Scotland. He actually has already seen and handled my dirk! He told me that it was a fine dirk and that he was busy at this point in time but he could provide me additional information about it sometime in May. I will send an update when he emails me back. Happy

Thomas McDonald · myArmoury Alumni

Hi Todd

It will be interesting to hear what Toby knows about this dirk .... I look forward to your update !

Thanks, Todd ! Mac