| Author |
Message |
Kenneth Enroth
|
 Posted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 7:54 am Post subject: Kriegsmesser size? |
 |
|
|
What is the upper limit for the size and weight of a kriegsmesser? I have read comments that there are huge two-handed kriegsmessers but I've never seen any info or pics as to how big they might be.
|
|
  |
 |
Manfred Fritz
|
| Posted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 8:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
One of the Kriegsmesser in the Leibrüstkammer in Vienna is about the size of a longsword if I remenber correctly,
|
|
|
|
|
Micha Hofmann
|
|
|
|
|
Craig Johnson
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 8:27 am Post subject: Big |
|
|
I have seen examples as large as any two hander. They are one of those styles of swords that seem to cover the entire size range in there variety. I have seen a couple that are big enough to actually wonder if they were more for show than use.
Best
Craig
|
|
  |
|
Kenneth Enroth
|
| Posted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 9:15 am Post subject: Re: Big |
|
|
| Craig Johnson wrote: | I have seen examples as large as any two hander. They are one of those styles of swords that seem to cover the entire size range in there variety. I have seen a couple that are big enough to actually wonder if they were more for show than use.
Best
Craig |
Ah, that's interesting. Funny how they seem to be absent from the internet. Are the big ones heavy as well or do they become really slender?
|
|
|
|
|
Craig Johnson
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 10:22 am Post subject: Blade width |
|
|
Hey Kenneth
Blade width seems to vary in proportion as smaller sizes do. They do not seem to be adjusted as the get bigger in the profile. The thickness may but many of these I have only seen in pictures as opposed to in person. The ones I have handled seem to be in the same range weight wise as the two handers of the period though the dynamics are different.
Best
Craig
PS | Quote: | | Funny how they seem to be absent from the internet. |
-The internet is a particularly inefficient research tool when one is trying to get to the specifics of a subject in detail like this. The amount of material that is in public collections that is not documented is large and most collections have little or no funding to bring it to the internet even if they have the inclination. The amount of stuff in private collections is almost totally not covered by any recording devise and the internet is particularly weak in the amount of material mentioned from this area. The one strong area is auction sources, though these are often only documented for a brief time and unless one trolls them regularly and collects the info it will not be there when one would like to reference it later.
The best way to research such subjects is to gain access to a museum library were journals, auction catalogs and scholarly works are all housed in one spot. Unfortunately these libraries can be open for only brief periods or in some cases are not open to the general public.
I will see if I can find some pics I can post of some of the large messers and put them up.
|
|
|
|
|
B. Stark
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 11:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Peter could probably elaborate more specifically, but the nature of these blades is a trade off in thickness versus width. Messers of all sizes, as well as Falchions have a very dynamic and abrupt distal taper or series of tapers. The combination creates lightness and rigidity without sacrificing durability. As with any sword of historical functionality Kriegsmessers are not behemoths. On top of that the slab tang construction creates a self balancing character to these swords. They are still wide, but thin in crossection. Like a very steep triangle for the most part (simplistic) while retaining a fairly robust back. In short they are not any heavier than a longsword of comparable length, and in some cases may even be lighter or seem so in heft and balance etc. Very ergonomic and handling friendly. Quite unlike the impression given by most literature concerning swords in general where statements such as "heavy, clever like" and so forth have fed the misconceived notion that these types of swords are without finesse in handling. It's just one more area of sword history and detail where arbitrary assessment without actual quantitative study has mislead so many. Hope this helps some.
"Wyrd bi∂ ful aręd"
|
|
|
|
|
Kenneth Enroth
|
| Posted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 1:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Great replies. It's great that there exists such a variety of possible messer configurations. I mean you could have a messer in any length/weight configuration suitable for a longsword or two-hander.
|
|
|
|
|
Thomas Laible
|
| Posted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 4:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Check out Peter Johnssons Kriegsmesser, which will be produced by Albion:
http://albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextge...knecht.htm
The illustration shows a landsknecht with Kriegsmesser from a woodcut (1500 -1520)
 Attachment: 72.01 KB
Last edited by Thomas Laible on Thu 07 Apr, 2005 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
Thomas Laible
|
| Posted: Thu 07 Apr, 2005 4:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
another one.
and also check out the curved blades section of the albums, you'll find some Kriegsmesser.
Regards,
Thomas
Attachment: 21.76 KB
|
|
|
|
|
Kenneth Enroth
|
| Posted: Fri 08 Apr, 2005 12:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Thomas Laible wrote: | another one.
and also check out the curved blades section of the albums, you'll find some Kriegsmesser.
Regards,
Thomas |
That one looks like it has quite a long blade compared to the hilt. But the drawing may not be based on a real messer.
|
|
|
|
|
Thomas Laible
|
| Posted: Fri 08 Apr, 2005 4:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Kenneth Enroth wrote: | | That one looks like it has quite a long blade compared to the hilt. But the drawing may not be based on a real messer. |
The drawing is from Eduard Wagner's "Hieb- und Stichwaffen". He is in general quite exact, but I don't know the original so I cannot confirm.
Thomas
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is a standard topic