[Tyler C.]

Hi All,

While speaking with my nephew, who is currently doing a school project on the weapons of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, we started looking into what type Romeo's dagger may have been. It's quite an interesting topic, and I'd love to get some input from the forum. There are a few mentions of daggers in the play, but the dagger in question is the one that Romeo has on his person when he enters the Capulet tomb and finds Juliet. When Juliet wakes and finds Romeo dead she takes her life with his dagger.

I think the first question here is setting. The locations is quite clear and takes place in northern Italy (Verona). The time however is a little more difficult to nail down. Many sources state that the play took place in the mid to late 14th century, but there is also mention of a rapier, and this would be a little early to see a rapier. This makes me wonder if perhaps it should be closer to mid to late 15th century. Or possibly, it could be that Shakespeare has used a slightly anachronistic term. I would love to hear your thoughts on this,

With a range of mid 14th to late 15th century we could still probably propose some theories of what type of dagger a young nobleman would have been carrying. Given the period and location I have been leaning toward a narrow dudgeon/ballock dagger, or possibly a rondel. I would also like to narrow down the specific styles that would make sense for this region if at all possible. Please post pictures, if you have an examples that you know of. My Nephew is interested in seeing what his dagger may have looked like.

Thank you all!

[Ryan S.]

I am pretty sure one should expect anachronisms in Shakespeare. I am not sure one can put a date on the setting of Romeo and Juliet. Shakespeare's play was written in the 1590s, but its source material was an English translation that was first published in 1562, but the original story was published in 1476. There were adaptions in between, so each author/translator could have changed the setting. There was a long tradition of claiming the story was based on real events, which suggests an intended setting before the date of publishing. I think the idea of it taking place in the 1300s is because in the play, Verona was independent and had a Prince. Now, as far as I know the ruler of Verona wasn't really called a Prince, but it is a close enough translation. However, Verona lost its independence in 1405.

[Victor R.]

I like the idea of an ear dagger. They date back to the 14th century and seemed to be popular in the Italian states, though possibly not that early. Romeo was from a wealthy family and would have likely carried a civilian dagger with a bit of pizzazz. I believe an ear dagger is generally considered an upper class weapon that could be carried by both civilian and martial nobility.

If we rather want to go with the age of the rapier, then I'd look to off-hand daggers with a strong Italian influence and an "upper class" feel to them. An ear dagger could also work (and may work better) in this time frame. There are some amazing pieces attributed to Italy in the 16th century.

That's just me - your mileage may vary.

[Leo Todeschini]

Through the 14th and 15thC the baselard was really common dagger in Italy for all strata of society, both military and civilian, so I would put my money there. I would say ear daggers are more late 15th and 16th from memory, but yes it clearly takes place before rapiers were ever around.

Nice question.

Tod

[Tyler C.]

Thanks for all the comments so far!

Ryan,
I ran into the independence of Verona argument while looking for a time setting too! I though it made a lot of sense to place it just before the loss of it's independence even though it's a fiction. It's a nice solid point of reference.


Tod,
A baselard was another option that I was looking into fairly seriously. The idea came from a couple nice examples of Italian baselards that are held in museums for example X.297 from the RA which I am quite fond of. That being said I have been trying to find some period depictions that show a baselard being carried in a civilian context (or really any Italian context) and haven't had much luck. I have seen rondels and dudgeon/ballocks in Italian art, but no baselards.

Anyone know of any period depictions that show daggers?

[Sean Manning]

[Leo Todeschini]

have a look nat Italian effigies

Tod

[Tyler C.]

[Sean Manning]

[Leo Todeschini]

This is becoming a rather interesting thread!

Those 'curly daggers' are an odd thing and I would love to know more. Here is a thread from 11 years ago now http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=222...agger+tod. and for the record, this is the sort of thing that makes myArmoury so precious to us.

Tod

[Ryan S.]

Acciaiuoli ´s dagger looks very interesting. The effigy looks of higher quality workmanship, too. As far as decoration, I think this dagger is quite decorative. It seems to have a leaf motive that matches the surcoat and also is repeated in the background. The sword has no leafy design, but the sheath of the sword matches that of the dagger.

I also looked up the Accialiuoli family, they were a wealthy banking family and at one time were the Dukes of Athens. I think it is to say that they might have been wealthier than the Montagues. I am not sure if the curled daggers were really more expensive, though. I get the idea that the daggers were more of a practical accessory than a decorative one. Although, I am pretty sure an ivory hilt would be pretty luxurious.

In the play, Count Paris is Romeo´s rival, and I think it is implied that he is richer than Romeo. So if I were directing Romeo and Juliet, I would give the Count the more prestigious looking weapon.

By the way, while Romeo and Juliet were not real, the Montagues and Capulets were. Their names were Montecchi and Cappelliti and are mentioned by Dante. They were Guelphs and Ghibellines respectively. The Prince of Verona is named Escalus, which seems to me to be inspired by the historical della Scala family. This speaks strongly for a setting during their rule.

[Sean Manning]

[Tyler C.]

I'm slow again to get back, sorry.

Ryan, thank you for the great context and history. Really cool to know that this story has some historical background and what it could be. I never imagined that there was any real history behind the play until this thread!


I've done a bit of searching around in collections and have found a few pieces that could add to this discussion. First, here are a few Italian ivory hilts from the MET museum that are quite lovely. When I saw the dagger carried by Acciaiuoli I immediately thought that it looks like the type of thing carved of ivory. Not that it couldn't be wood, or something else, but I think the shapes and contour in that hilt lend itself to a material like Ivory more. These three are nothing like the Acciaiuoli hilt, but two date from the right period and show what period bling could be.

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/27624?ft=49.57.3&offset=0&rpp=40&pos=1

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/34077?ft=29.158.658a&offset=0&rpp=40&pos=1

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/21961?ft=04.3.141&offset=0&rpp=40&pos=1


Also, these three beauties from the RA stood out to me this time around. They are not Italian, but in each case the hilts are beautifully done and clearly very decorative. The wood is not just standard plain jane wood. They are clearly pieces with character. It looks like both wood grips are burled wood (IX.3482 in particular shows the burled grain). Along with the wood there are other decorative elements like the stamped end caps and strip of gilded plate down the center of the grip on X.1716. The bone and brass plate combination of X.195 must have also been stunning when it was new. All really great examples of the type of bling that could be on a baselard of the period.


https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-48395.html
https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-1205.html
https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-26617.html


Tod, Lovely dagger! Thanks for sharing. I can't seem to find an image of I733 from the Wallace that you reference in your other post. Do you have a picture you can share?