[Folkert van Wijk]

I was wondering about those iron Celtic scabbards, like the one so beautiful recreated by Patrick Bárta, and that's bin reviewed lately here.

How would these two halves be attached to each other in those days??
These scabbards exist of two halves one half has an edge that accommodates the edge of the other half.
But how would they hold on to each other??? Just by the strenght of the iron? Are the edges of these two parts hammered and forged on to each other or did they use a kind of solder technique?

And where these Iron scabbards only made of iron, or was there also a wood construction inside?

And in general: what techniques where there in those days to attache to peases of iron or bronze to eatch other??

you see there are a lot of metallurgic riddles for me...

[Greyson Brown]

Folkert,

I am no expert, but I do have a little knowledge, so I'll try to help you out.

A lot of non-steel tools and components throughout history were made of wrought iron. Wrought has almost no carbon in it and is very easy to work. I have not had the privilege of using it myself, but have testomony from several reliable individuals that they could consistantly make forge welds with wrought iron that they would never have even tried with mild steel. So it would have been possible to weld two pieces together. The biggest single trick (which actually involves multiple parts) when forge welding is to get the metal as hot as possible without burning the carbon in it (which is where the low carbon content of wrought iron comes in handy), and then hit it before it gets cold. With something like two halves of a scabbard, there really is not much mass and it would be veryeasy to lose heat before you could hit it. That would not be a huge problem, as you can pretty much keep trying until you pound out your metal into tin foil, but it would be really really frustrating!

It is also possible that pieces would have been brazed together. To be honest, I don't know much about brazing, and have never done it myself, but it is relatively similar to soldering. Essentially, brazing consists of melting a softer (i.e. has a lower melting point), non-ferrous metal and using it to hold to other pieces of metal together. I think the biggest difference between soldering and brazing is the bit about the filler being non-ferrous, but I'm not really sure. If you were to mess up while brazing, you should (at least theoretically) be able to melt out the filler (because it will melt before the other pieces) and start over without any damage to the rest of the scabbard, or whatever other project you are working on. You indcated that one half of the scabbard has an edge that accomodates the other. If this were some kind of tongue-in-groove construction, or something similar, it might provide a channel for the brazing filler to flow into. That would probably help to ensure that everything got held together consistantly along the length of the scabbard.

Thus, especially given the edges of the scabbard halves, I think it is most likely that the scabbards you were asking about would have been brazed together. That said, the only historical techniques that I am aware of for holding two pieces of iron or bronze together are welding, brazing, and more obvious things like rivets. There might be something out there that I have not considered. Hope that helps at least a little bit.

-Grey

[Nathan Bell]

Hi Folkert,

These scabbards were crimped at the edges. It's a process which seems a bit modern, often how metal gutter sections are fastened togethr. My Barta scabbard is made the same way.

Basically either the front plate has a few millimeters extra width than the back(usually in celtic swords) or the back is a bit wider than the front (more rare but still seen on some scabbards)....the thin extra bit is then folded over the other plate and a pressure is exerted along a thin, fine line basically making a "fold" at the edges.

The very bottom portion of the scabbrd does not have the crimped metal, but is rather held by the chape. The chape is sort of like a very narrow gutter shaped clamp that runs along both sides and the point section of the scabbard. These chapes are very distinctive and "sensitive" by time period....the form of the chape is often the best identifier of the age and period of the celtic sword.

Typically, the scabbards are very thin and fit very closely to the blade. There have been isolated finds with a thn bit of leather lining or thin slats of wood. Here we are talking about a very thin scabbard lining of wood or leather, with still a very tight fit to the blade.

On the Continent, the scabbards were typically of iron, and bronze was the exception. In Britain, the opposite was generally true.

Hope this helps,

Nate

[Greyson Brown]

Well, that makes sense. Why didn't I think of that one? At least now we know.

-Grey

[Jonathon Janusz]

Nathan,

Forgive me for being spatially inept, but could I trouble you (or someone else?) for a quick sketch of the crimping - I just can't get my head around the description.

Thanks!

[Folkert van Wijk]

I quess / think he means something like this....

[Nathan Bell]

[Folkert van Wijk]

And then the most common way..

(making an illu, is one way of spending your lunch brake...)

[Greyson Brown]

You know, Folkert, I just would have said that the front of the scabbard was down in the first set of illustrations. Your way is a bit more entertaining though.

-Grey

[Jonathon Janusz]

Folkert,

Thanks for the illustrations!

I knew things in period were done the way that made sense to the rest of us, just upside down and backwards!

Seriously, though, anyone know of similar scabbard making techniques later in period? Disregarding post-1500 era, Were metal/metal covered scabbards used throughout or in fashion in other periods? Any particulars on manufacture/construction?

Thanks again!

[Greyson Brown]