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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 663

PostPosted: Mon 04 Oct, 2021 8:33 am    Post subject: Oakeshott Institute in Financial Trouble         Reply with quote

The Oakeshott Institute in the midwestern USA is in financial trouble after the pandemic shut down their face-to-face fundraising events and then Paypal confiscated a substantial sum of money (as an aside: never ever leave money in a Paypal account which you can't afford to lose- because of fraud and money laundering, they are very aggressive at freezing accounts, and because they are cheap they make it hard for customers to speak to an actual person and appeal a case). Craig and Nathan from Arms & Armor have launched a GoFundMe to pay the rent and the electricity bills https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-the-oakeshott-institute

(their vlog about it https://www.arms-n-armor.com/blogs/news/support-the-oakeshott-institute-from-anti-sword-bias)

Edit: added markup around links

www.bookandsword.com


Last edited by Sean Manning on Mon 04 Oct, 2021 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,615

PostPosted: Mon 04 Oct, 2021 8:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am pulling a 404 on the link. Might be on my end since I'm having a few other sites come back unavailable that should not.

Might be fixed now!

"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd


Last edited by Joe Fults on Mon 04 Oct, 2021 9:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,615

PostPosted: Mon 04 Oct, 2021 9:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Also, to make sure I'm following here, PayPal basically robbed a museum and then tried to extort said museum into buying a new unwanted service, and then finally settled for only robbing the museum? I mean, that seems like the story here.
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd


Last edited by Joe Fults on Mon 04 Oct, 2021 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 663

PostPosted: Mon 04 Oct, 2021 9:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Joe Fults wrote:
Also, to make sure I'm following here, PayPal robbed a museum and then tried to extort said museum into buying a new unwanted service, and then finally settled for only robbing the museum? I mean, that seems like the story here.

Paypal will freeze accounts or confiscate money in them on the slightest pretext. In the early days many people used them for fraud and money laundering, so they got quite aggressive at shutting accounts down. Craig and Nathan did not know this, so most of the Institute's money was in Paypal when Paypal suddenly freezed the Institute's account then confiscated the money in it. They have exhausted all recourses short of court which could probably be more expensive than the money the Institute lost.

A&A and Craig / Nathan regained access to their paypal accounts and the money in them, but the Institute's accounts is still locked and the money was confiscated.

I updated the links in the OP.

www.bookandsword.com


Last edited by Sean Manning on Mon 04 Oct, 2021 9:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,615

PostPosted: Mon 04 Oct, 2021 9:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Didn't realize this was a thing. Great service that I'm glad I use much less! Hope this all works out for the institute. Seems like we've lost access to quite a few collections. I'd hate to see this go private too!
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

PostPosted: Tue 05 Oct, 2021 8:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is a pretty terrible situation on multiple levels. As appalled as I am that their money would be confiscated (and I am genuinely appalled), I also feel badly that I haven't supported the Institute before to keep them from being this close to financial disaster. I chipped in some money and wish I could do more.
Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Joe Maccarrone




Location: Burien, WA USA
Joined: 19 Sep 2003

Posts: 187

PostPosted: Tue 05 Oct, 2021 9:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So...some 23-year old paypal staffer dropped his avocado toast in terror when he saw a picture of a sword...
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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 663

PostPosted: Tue 05 Oct, 2021 9:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Unfortunately, this kind of behaviour is common among banks and web services companies in the USA, and usually laid down at a high level. Sometimes it is a video host demonetarizing documentaries on atrocities in WW II, sometimes it is a porn performer trying to open a business account and having their private account shut down without notice, and sometimes it is Paypal freezing an account or confiscating the money in it because some keyword triggered a business rule. But since this is myArmoury dot com not UsPolitics dot com, we can concentrate on helping out the Oakeshott Institute.
www.bookandsword.com
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,615

PostPosted: Tue 05 Oct, 2021 2:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Have done what I can in the moment. Timing is bad for me. Trying to see what else I might be able to do in slightly more than the moment!
"The goal shouldn’t be to avoid being evil; it should be to actively do good." - Danah Boyd
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Aaron Hoard




Location: Seattle, WA
Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Likes: 4 pages

Posts: 171

PostPosted: Tue 05 Oct, 2021 3:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Donated. Sorry this happened.

It's too bad your State Attorney General isn't looking into this for you - how many others are facing the same situation w/o recourse? It'd be one thing if they simply cancelled your account because they didn't like your business; it's quite another that they are seizing assets - based on their whim/rules. It seems like they should be subject to some oversight by FRB, SEC or FTC.

Anyway - hope they are able to pull through this.
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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 663

PostPosted: Wed 06 Oct, 2021 7:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aaron Hoard wrote:
Donated. Sorry this happened.

It's too bad your State Attorney General isn't looking into this for you - how many others are facing the same situation w/o recourse? It'd be one thing if they simply cancelled your account because they didn't like your business; it's quite another that they are seizing assets - based on their whim/rules. It seems like they should be subject to some oversight by FRB, SEC or FTC.

Anyway - hope they are able to pull through this.

If Craig and Nathan decided they had the time and the energy, there might be a way through small claims court too. Librarian Jessamyn West got $600 out of Equifax that way https://jessamyn.medium.com/suing-equifax-in-small-claims-court-3f7c584e5717 Big companies hire teams of lawyers to write the agreements saying that by using their service you promise them your firstborn child, but those agreements are not always enforceable.

www.bookandsword.com
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,301

PostPosted: Fri 08 Oct, 2021 7:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well first time making a Go Fund Me donation, after a GOOGLE search to find out how it works. ( It was easy to do with a credit card .... Didn't have the irony of using Paypal to send the funds Razz )

What Paypal did seems like legalized or dubiously legalized theft ! Government also confiscate money and cash when they suspect criminal activity at times without any supporting proof, but usually one can get the money back when one can prove that the money wasn't the fruit of crime or money laundering.

So I donated $200 US dollars and I hope that it can keep the Oakeshott financially solvent for a while longer.

Maybe getting this baseless confiscation of funds on the news media could shame Paypal into returning the " stolen funds " under a false and erroneous pretext ?

Oh, and I guess never leave any substantial funds in one's Paypal account. WTF?!

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Harry Marinakis




PostPosted: Mon 18 Oct, 2021 4:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sorry to hear this.

I closed my Paypal account years ago. I saw that the company was nothing but trouble back then, and stopped doing business with them because of shady business practices. I was very surprised to see so many people flocking to Paypal despite the warning signs.
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