Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Shelter that Knight Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Julian Brewer




Location: Oxford
Joined: 21 Apr 2020

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat 25 Apr, 2020 4:36 am    Post subject: Shelter that Knight         Reply with quote

Hello all,

Iím in need of some help and guidance. My name is Julian and I do periods costumes, predominantly Elizabethan and renaissance both for professional productions and for deep pocketed Larpers like myself. More recently Iíve decided I want a challenge something which my creativity is restricted to be true to history. So with this in mind Iíve decided to focus on the Knights Templar; making a surcoat is simple and no real challenge. So where does the challenge come? Well let me tell you friends!

Now before we go any further full disclosure, I will be asking a thousand questions as time goes on so forgive me in advance.

So to my challenge, I want to create an entire Knights Templar kit, I use the word kit not costume as Iím not just intending to create an outfit. I want to create everything that a Templar would carry and use as they went off on their epic journeys. There is plenty of information on their Uniforms (although I will have plenty of questions on that later) but the things that are causing me the biggest headaches are equipment based. There are two in particular 1- tents 2- saddle bags. Iíve ordered some books on the Latin Rule and the additional clauses but they wonít be with me for sometime.

I know that the Master was issued a pavilion tent which consisted of 3 poles, 4 flaps and two pegs (Iím unsure what this would look like, does this mean the centre pole came in three sections? Four flaps I assume means 4 walls? And only two pegs?) I also know the Master was issued a tent for their squires not see what this would of looked like.

So my questions are what would a Brother Knight have slept in? What would the squires sleep in?

Iím not just talking about campaign camping either. Imagine our Templar is off on an errand taking a letter from the Master to the Grand Master, the road ahead is inhospitable there are no inns, just Mother Nature, with a three day ride ahead. Where would our Knight sleep, would he sleep under the stars? Perhaps he had a shed? Did he carry a big pavilion or was there something else for him and his squire?

My second question which I have even less information on despite searching Google, I may not been searching in the right places of course; but how did Knights transport their equipment on horseback? What did a saddle bag from this periods look like?

Iím not sure if anyone can assist me in answering these questions but I would be glad of any assistance anyone can offer.

Thanking you in advance.

Julian

Everyday leads to an inspiration, all you have to do is open your eyes to find it.
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,472

PostPosted: Sat 25 Apr, 2020 5:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Templars never wore surcoats for most of their history. Throughout the majority of the Crusades they wore their Cistercian monks robes over their armour. They weren't granted dispensation to wear surcoats until 1240 and they were disbanded in 1312, so there were no Templar surcoats except in 7th-9th Crusades. Before you do anything you need to pick a time period because fashions changed considerably during the centuries of Templar activity.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
View user's profile Send private message
Julian Brewer




Location: Oxford
Joined: 21 Apr 2020

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun 26 Apr, 2020 1:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Dan,

Many thanks for your reply, I was looking to focus around the last 30-50 years or so of the Templarís.

Everyday leads to an inspiration, all you have to do is open your eyes to find it.
View user's profile Send private message
Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,307

PostPosted: Sun 26 Apr, 2020 3:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
The Templars never wore surcoats for most of their history. Throughout the majority of the Crusades they wore their Cistercian monks robes over their armour. They weren't granted dispensation to wear surcoats until 1240 and they were disbanded in 1312, so there were no Templar surcoats except in 7th-9th Crusades. Before you do anything you need to pick a time period because fashions changed considerably during the centuries of Templar activity.


Only depictions we have of templars in armour show them without either surcoat or monk robe.
View user's profile Send private message
Julian Brewer




Location: Oxford
Joined: 21 Apr 2020

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun 26 Apr, 2020 4:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is some guidance on the subject of what they wore which is detailed in the Latin Rule and subsequent clauses. But I feel this is a subject we can repent at great length and one I will be looking to have later in my journey through this project.
Everyday leads to an inspiration, all you have to do is open your eyes to find it.
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,472

PostPosted: Sun 26 Apr, 2020 8:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka Borscak wrote:
Dan Howard wrote:
The Templars never wore surcoats for most of their history. Throughout the majority of the Crusades they wore their Cistercian monks robes over their armour. They weren't granted dispensation to wear surcoats until 1240 and they were disbanded in 1312, so there were no Templar surcoats except in 7th-9th Crusades. Before you do anything you need to pick a time period because fashions changed considerably during the centuries of Templar activity.


Only depictions we have of templars in armour show them without either surcoat or monk robe.


We know for a fact that the dispensation to wear surcoats was specifically granted because their Cistercian robes hindered their ability to fight, so obviously they must have worn those robes when they fought.

Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
View user's profile Send private message
Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,307

PostPosted: Sun 26 Apr, 2020 10:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
Luka Borscak wrote:
Dan Howard wrote:
The Templars never wore surcoats for most of their history. Throughout the majority of the Crusades they wore their Cistercian monks robes over their armour. They weren't granted dispensation to wear surcoats until 1240 and they were disbanded in 1312, so there were no Templar surcoats except in 7th-9th Crusades. Before you do anything you need to pick a time period because fashions changed considerably during the centuries of Templar activity.


Only depictions we have of templars in armour show them without either surcoat or monk robe.


We know for a fact that the dispensation to wear surcoats was specifically granted because their Cistercian robes hindered their ability to fight, so obviously they must have worn those robes when they fought.


I know they got permission to wear surcoats because they said cappa hindered the fighting. But if the cappa hindered their fighting did they even wore it or they asked the permission although they already didn't wear it because it endagered them in a fight?
View user's profile Send private message
R. Robinson




Location: NE
Joined: 23 Apr 2018

Posts: 37

PostPosted: Mon 27 Apr, 2020 4:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd definitely err on the side of a religious order continuing to wear them out of obedience, unless local dispensations were given to them outside of a dispensation across the entire order.
View user's profile Send private message
Julian Brewer




Location: Oxford
Joined: 21 Apr 2020

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sat 02 May, 2020 12:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ok, so some clarification on the surcoat. One of my books has arrived and this is what it has to say on the matter.

The Rules of the Templars - J.M. Upton - Ward

ďHere begins the Retrais of the Knight Brothers and the Sergeant Brothers of the Covens

138. Each Knight brother of the convent should have three horses and one squire; and a fourth and second squire, if he has them, are at the discretion of the Master; and they should have a communal ration of barker for their horses; a huberk, iron hose, a helmet or chapeau de fur, a sword, a lance, a Turkish mace, a surcoat, arming jacket, mail shoes, and three knives: a dagger, a breadknife and a pocket knife. They may have caparisons, two shirts, two pairs of breeches and two pairs of hose; and a small belt which they should tie over the shirt. And all the brothers of the Temple should sleep thus, except when ill in the hospital, and the. They should do so with permission. They should have a jerkin with tails back and front, and a covering fur jacket, two white mantles, one with fur and one without; but in summer the should give back the one with fur, and the Draper May put it aside for their use.

However, I would be grateful if someone was able to shed light on the questions I have about shelter and saddlebags?

Everyday leads to an inspiration, all you have to do is open your eyes to find it.
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Shelter that Knight
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2020 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum