Double Belt and Two Point Long Sword Suspensions -- myArmoury.com

Craig Peters

I've noticed that two point suspensions are often popular on modern day scabbard reproductions. We also see double belts in some instances, too.

What I would like to know is when double belts and two point suspensions first appear. Also, at what point are they no longer a novelty, and instead have become popular? To what extent do other, earlier suspensions persist on scabbards?

I suspect double belts first appear on single-handed sword scabbards. If that's the case, I'm still interested more in the earliest known example on a long sword scabbard.

In part, I would like to help raise awareness among collectors and enthusiasts to encourage greater accuracy in reproduction scabbards.

Brian K. · Industry Professional

The earliest evidence I have of a double belt integral harness would be 1221 - Robert de Vere Earl of Oxford

The earliest 'evidence' of your 2-point, which I refer to as 2.5-point or 3-point is 1472 - Montefeltro Altarpiece by Piero della Francesca

Edit: found an even earlier version of the 2 point here - 1441 - John Cherowin

The double-belt is used throughout the 13th, 14th and even into the 15th centuries but the 2.5-point is rare to find. However, it is the cheapest method to harness a 15th and 16th century sword.

I think there needs to be a more open mind in regards to time frame of usage regarding suspensions. I have evidence of a 14th century viking style harness setup. There is also evidence of a Chinese sword used by a Templar.

As for modern day reproductions, there is so much demand of it you're going to see a lot of repro's and it is more about what the customer wants and not necessarily accuracy.

Sean Manning

Sean Manning · Posted: Sat 23 Feb, 2019 2:04 am Post subject:

Here is one of Roland Warzecha's "teasers" from his forthcoming book: a diagram of 9th/10th century Norse and Frankish scabbard suspensions. https://www.patreon.com/posts/23906171

Here is Carol van Driel-Murray on suspensions from the end of the 13th/beginning of the 14th century (Leiden, Schleswig, Naumburg Cathdral) https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/handle/1887/57788/Sheaths_Leiden.pdf?sequence=1 Many of the modern scabbard-makers learned to make these from Peter Johansson.

Here is the most common late 14th century suspension:

The latest of the three designs is the least sophisticated and ergonomic ("hang it vertically from a hip belt") ... and if you want "firsts" you will have to read up on Bronze Age and Roman scabbards.

Sean Manning · Posted: Wed 13 Mar, 2019 1:09 am Post subject:

Craig, I had time to throw together this image showing how I think late 14th/early 15th century European scabbards were usually worn.

The sword hangs vertically or tilted slightly forward at the left hip, usually with the junction between scabbard and belt hidden between scabbard and wearer. Occasionally the scabbard is attached directly to the fauld of the cuirass with no sword-belt at all, and again, it hangs upright or tilted slightly forward.

Beginning around 1380 a handful of images show another system, with the sword worn at an angle from a waist belt with a strap from the small of the back to the middle of the blade, but this is very rare until well into the 15th century, the vast majority of art shows swords worn upright and no extra strap. I have mostly seen this in paintings from northern Italy (Altichiero's frescos in Padua, the Padua Picture Bible, the Fior di Battaglia in the Getty Museum) whereas the three solutions in the first picture appear all over Europe in all kinds of art.

Most scabbard makers today offer a few different kinds that are hard to find after 1340, and another kind which is very rare before the middle of the 15th century, and they don't offer the kinds which were overwhelmingly preferred in between unless customers knows what to ask for. I just hope that they are honest with customers who want a typical late 14th century or early 15th century scabbard that the harness should look like one of the three pictures at the top of this post.

Craig Peters · Posted: Sat 16 Mar, 2019 12:43 am Post subject:

Thanks Sean. Your post provides valuable information and a service to those interested in historically accurate scabbards. I know this is a bit of an anachronistic question, but have you noticed patterns or trends in those wearing long swords unarmoured?

Michael Zimmermann · Posted: Sat 16 Mar, 2019 2:07 am Post subject:

There's also this method (not sure how it falls into the above classification), as depicted on the Portinari Triptych (ca. 1475 ?), which I haven't seen reproduced:

Sean Manning · Posted: Sat 16 Mar, 2019 3:53 am Post subject:

Michael Zimmermann · Posted: Sat 16 Mar, 2019 4:18 am Post subject:

Sure thing.

Reason, why I thought this might be interesting, is not just the method of suspension.
Van der Goes clearly depicts a rider (spurs), whose horse is held by his companion in the background, wearing a longsword very low down the thigh.
The question of how a scabbard suspension reacts not just to human locomotion, but the different gaits of a horse, is not as pressing today, as it was then. Mind you, this is not just about the wearer's comfort, or ability to draw quickly and easily, either. The lower third of the scabbard/chape might slap the flank of your horse in a really unfortunate way, if you don't know how to wear it properly.
The system shown on the Triptych reminds a little of later sabre suspensions, which hang unreasonably low when walking, if they're not pulled upwards and hooked into the belt after dismounting.

Sean Manning · Posted: Sat 16 Mar, 2019 4:59 am Post subject:

Michael, I agree: many scabbard suspensions were optimized for horsemen, not for footmen. On the other hand, the English in my period liked to wear their swords upright at the hip even though they often did arms on foot, and the people I know who have worn swords that way find that it works OK on foot.

Here is the Wikipedia page for your triptych, it looks like the sword wearer is one of the small figures in the background of the right panel, and that he is wearing one of those short gowns which may hide some of the details.

Michael Zimmermann · Posted: Sat 16 Mar, 2019 5:46 am Post subject:

Well, I'm not sure about optimized; it's probably more that people knew these suspensions would have had to be adjustable to work decently either way.
For the so-called 2,5 point suspension, specifically those with a slider on the back, this might be achieved by moving the latter across to lower the sword. With a fixed distributor you could adjust the angle by buckling the third scabbard strap, which feeds into the belt end, more tightly, perhaps.

Yep, agree entirely about the English preference. I think, both the integrated sword belt and this properly vertical suspension is actually more easily managed on horseback. Might slap you or the saddle, but there's little danger the scabbard hits the horse in such a way, as to startle the beast. Or, perhaps, medieval horses were taught to ignore the whole thing...

Thanks. I had the opportunity to study the altarpiece in Florence and he is indeed a background denizen, standing just above Maria Portinari's hennin. I would assume his outer garment hides a thin belt, from which all of this gear dangles.

Craig Peters · Posted: Sat 16 Mar, 2019 7:10 am Post subject:

Michael P. Smith · Posted: Sat 16 Mar, 2019 11:58 am Post subject:

I assume by "two-point" you are referring to a suspension with the buckle side attached to one ring of the locket and the the remainder of the belt to a ring on the opposite side of the locket? I don't know about specifically longsword use of such a suspension, but that suspension was common from the early 14th century until... what... maybe 1360 in a martial context. We see them all over effigies. Then we get the weird vertical hang look. You asked about civilian context... I can't find much, but the illustrations in the Ellesmere Chaucer hint at a similar suspension because of the angle of the belt and sword, but the the details are not seen as all those carrying swords have a buckler covering the hilt and suspension system, so we can;t say anything about the details, really, and these are riding swords (thus the buckler). Not much help, I guess, but it is something.

Sean Manning · Posted: Mon 18 Mar, 2019 2:56 am Post subject:

Michael P. Smith · Posted: Mon 18 Mar, 2019 10:08 am Post subject:

Sean Manning · Posted: Mon 18 Mar, 2019 3:42 pm Post subject:

Michael Zimmermann · Posted: Thu 21 Mar, 2019 2:09 pm Post subject:

One addendum to the above posts:

If you like the earlier dates suggested for Uccello's work on the Battle of San Romano, the 2/2,5 point suspension might be documented even earlier than 1441, say 1435. The only caveat here: the panels show arming and not long swords.

Also, for the newly named A-suspension, there is an interesting variant on a Crivelli altarpiece, which comes in at the very end of the 15th century. Again, not a long sword in the scabbard, though.