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Rod Walker




Location: NSW, Australia.
Joined: 05 Feb 2004

Posts: 220

PostPosted: Sun 17 Feb, 2019 10:02 am    Post subject: Ancient Greek/Scythian Equipment.         Reply with quote

I retired from jousting last May and took some time off to go race bikes again.

Late last year I got back on the horses and started work on a new period for me, Ancients. In particular Ancient Greek and Scythians.

I've been merrily buying and making equipment. I purchased the bronze Thracian helm and made the spolas. I still have scales to add to the front upper chest and the rear of the yoke.









I had a go at making a Scythian sword and a war hammer.











Still making clothing for both impressions. I have spent the last few months training my stallion Athos and working on my bareback riding.



Cheers

Rod
Jouster
www.jousting.com.au

"Come! Let us lay a lance in rest,
And tilt at windmills under a wild sky!
For who would live so petty and unblessed
That dare not tilt at something, ere he die?"
--Errantry, John Galsworthy
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Kai Lawson




Location: Madison, WI
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 504

PostPosted: Sun 17 Feb, 2019 1:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Iím not qualified to comment on the gear or the horsemanship, but I think this is really cool and Iím excited to see someone working with this stuff and this time period, and sharing photos and info here with us! Please keep this up, and let us know what your attitude is towards any future heavy cavalry or lance/sword and shield use while riding bareback! Iím looking forward to future additions to this thread.

Quick question: how does one compensate for accuracy or stability while riding hard or fast bareback? Even if you move the hips and use the low back and legs, donít you still get a good amount of bounce? Doesnít that hurt your spine after a while? I have very limited riding experience, so I just donít know.

"And they crossed swords."
--William Goldman, alias S. Morgenstern
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,323

PostPosted: Sun 17 Feb, 2019 1:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

COOL!! I've got that same helmet, and I think it's pretty impressive for "Made in India". Love that spolas, too. (Though I will say that I'm wondering if the presence of scales indicates a more "composite" construction than we think, since scales only need a thin backing and don't make *as* much sense over *heavy* leather.)

And I don't know much about Scythian stuff, but that hammer is terrific.

VERY cool!! Thanks for sharing the photos!

Matthew
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Gregg Sobocinski




Location: Michigan
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Likes: 5 pages
Reading list: 12 books

Posts: 135

PostPosted: Sun 17 Feb, 2019 7:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am also enjoying this thread. It is nice to see your kit on display, and then in action. Looks great. Well done!
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Rod Walker




Location: NSW, Australia.
Joined: 05 Feb 2004

Posts: 220

PostPosted: Sun 17 Feb, 2019 8:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=49RvCXJwIZY

Thanks guys, I'm at work at the moment, so can't reply properly. But I forgot to link this video this morning.

Cheers

Rod
Jouster
www.jousting.com.au

"Come! Let us lay a lance in rest,
And tilt at windmills under a wild sky!
For who would live so petty and unblessed
That dare not tilt at something, ere he die?"
--Errantry, John Galsworthy
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Niels Just Rasmussen




Location: NykÝbing Falster, Denmark
Joined: 03 Sep 2014

Spotlight topics: 15
Posts: 818

PostPosted: Thu 21 Feb, 2019 7:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing this!
Really great work at controlling your horse bareback and the amour and helmet looks great as well.
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Rod Walker




Location: NSW, Australia.
Joined: 05 Feb 2004

Posts: 220

PostPosted: Sun 24 Feb, 2019 12:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kai Lawson wrote:

Quick question: how does one compensate for accuracy or stability while riding hard or fast bareback? Even if you move the hips and use the low back and legs, donít you still get a good amount of bounce? Doesnít that hurt your spine after a while? I have very limited riding experience, so I just donít know.


It's not really that different to being in a saddle. An independent seat is an independent seat regardless of having a saddle or not. You do tend to grip with the thighs more, as per Xenophen.

I would rather ride bareback than in a saddle now. So much more contact and feel with the horse.

Cheers

Rod
Jouster
www.jousting.com.au

"Come! Let us lay a lance in rest,
And tilt at windmills under a wild sky!
For who would live so petty and unblessed
That dare not tilt at something, ere he die?"
--Errantry, John Galsworthy
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Rod Walker




Location: NSW, Australia.
Joined: 05 Feb 2004

Posts: 220

PostPosted: Sun 24 Feb, 2019 12:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Amt wrote:
COOL!! I've got that same helmet, and I think it's pretty impressive for "Made in India". Love that spolas, too. (Though I will say that I'm wondering if the presence of scales indicates a more "composite" construction than we think, since scales only need a thin backing and don't make *as* much sense over *heavy* leather.)

And I don't know much about Scythian stuff, but that hammer is terrific.

VERY cool!! Thanks for sharing the photos!

Matthew


Thanks Matthew, it has become one of my favourite helmets.

I still find the spolas to be light Big Grin
It only weighs just under 6kg.
My frogmouth jousting helm for my 15thC jousting harness weighs just under 8kg by itself!
This ancient stuff is like a little slice of heaven.

Scythians seem to be very heavily armoured for the period. Looking forward to making more armour. Though I also like just wearing a chiton under the spolas.

Wish I had found this period years ago.

Cheers

Rod
Jouster
www.jousting.com.au

"Come! Let us lay a lance in rest,
And tilt at windmills under a wild sky!
For who would live so petty and unblessed
That dare not tilt at something, ere he die?"
--Errantry, John Galsworthy
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William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 11 Jul 2010

Posts: 1,438

PostPosted: Sun 24 Feb, 2019 8:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Rod Walker wrote:
Matthew Amt wrote:
COOL!! I've got that same helmet, and I think it's pretty impressive for "Made in India". Love that spolas, too. (Though I will say that I'm wondering if the presence of scales indicates a more "composite" construction than we think, since scales only need a thin backing and don't make *as* much sense over *heavy* leather.)

And I don't know much about Scythian stuff, but that hammer is terrific.

VERY cool!! Thanks for sharing the photos!

Matthew


Thanks Matthew, it has become one of my favourite helmets.

I still find the spolas to be light Big Grin
It only weighs just under 6kg.
My frogmouth jousting helm for my 15thC jousting harness weighs just under 8kg by itself!
This ancient stuff is like a little slice of heaven.

Scythians seem to be very heavily armoured for the period. Looking forward to making more armour. Though I also like just wearing a chiton under the spolas.

Wish I had found this period years ago.


would that helmet happen to be the one sold by medieval fightclub or ancient replicas?

i have been eyeing their pilos for ages and was curious of MFC's ancient helmets were worth anything especially since im going through their catalogue and seeing whats useful and whats tosh
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,323

PostPosted: Sun 24 Feb, 2019 10:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

William P wrote:


would that helmet happen to be the one sold by medieval fightclub or ancient replicas?

i have been eyeing their pilos for ages and was curious of MFC's ancient helmets were worth anything especially since im going through their catalogue and seeing whats useful and whats tosh


Yeah, looks like the same Phrygian helmet. IF the pilos is the same one that a friend of mine has, it looks all right from the side but its very oval, with the sides being pretty straight (when seen from below, I mean), whereas the originals are all pretty circular. And WAY overpriced--they should be able to crank these out in one piece for under a hundred bucks.

MFC and Ancient Replicas are both just vendors, of course, marketing the same selection of Indian-made stuff as most places. Ancient Replicas might make the crests they sell with those helmets, and I think they offer to paint shields, etc., but basically they're a vendor.

Matthew
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Rod Walker




Location: NSW, Australia.
Joined: 05 Feb 2004

Posts: 220

PostPosted: Mon 25 Feb, 2019 9:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yep, I got mine from MFC. It is the bronze version.

Matthew, is this spear set any good?

http://www.ancientreplicas.com.au/prod_desc_GAH3529.html?sno=298

Cheers

Rod
Jouster
www.jousting.com.au

"Come! Let us lay a lance in rest,
And tilt at windmills under a wild sky!
For who would live so petty and unblessed
That dare not tilt at something, ere he die?"
--Errantry, John Galsworthy
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,323

PostPosted: Tue 26 Feb, 2019 7:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Rod Walker wrote:
Matthew, is this spear set any good?

http://www.ancientreplicas.com.au/prod_desc_GAH3529.html?sno=298


The buttspike is okay but the spearhead is MASSIVE, so I wouldn't touch it. Way overpriced, too.

Deepeeka has a new buttspike that's even better than their old one, but I'm not sure how available it is. KOA offers this one from "Lord of Battles":

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...ar+Buttcap

I like this small spearhead, too:

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...Spear+Head

Larger ones certainly existed, but with a tapered shaft and a decent buttspike with that small head, you get a spear that balances way back towards the butt.

OH! Just occurred to me that the massive spearhead you linked to might be perfect for the BUTT of a Macedonian cavalry lance! See the Alexander Mosaic--little point out front, BIG one out back. Seeing as you're a horsey guy, and all that, ha!

Matthew
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Rod Walker




Location: NSW, Australia.
Joined: 05 Feb 2004

Posts: 220

PostPosted: Wed 27 Feb, 2019 8:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Matthew, I ended up getting this set half price Big Grin

http://www.reenactorswarehouse.com.au/product...p;cPath=63

Cheers

Rod
Jouster
www.jousting.com.au

"Come! Let us lay a lance in rest,
And tilt at windmills under a wild sky!
For who would live so petty and unblessed
That dare not tilt at something, ere he die?"
--Errantry, John Galsworthy
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,323

PostPosted: Thu 28 Feb, 2019 8:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh, excellent! Deepeeka's newest parts, surprisingly nice, I'm glad they're available. I've got a set of those myself, waiting for me to stick them on a pole. Can't have too many spears.

Matthew
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Rod Walker




Location: NSW, Australia.
Joined: 05 Feb 2004

Posts: 220

PostPosted: Tue 12 Mar, 2019 10:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The kopis and spear set arrived.

I have already attacked the blade of the kopis and reshaped the blade and thinned the blade out. It was 1200g when it arrived and I have it down to 960g. There is definitely more meat in the blade to be removed.









Dory mounted up.

Cheers

Rod
Jouster
www.jousting.com.au

"Come! Let us lay a lance in rest,
And tilt at windmills under a wild sky!
For who would live so petty and unblessed
That dare not tilt at something, ere he die?"
--Errantry, John Galsworthy
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kai Lawson




Location: Madison, WI
Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 504

PostPosted: Wed 13 Mar, 2019 9:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Man that looks like so much fun. This thread is really great.

Matthew Amt, are there many reports (ancient literature or excavation reports) about what woods were used for ancient spears (mostly the smaller guys; not really looking for the long sarissa guys)? Maybe whether they were coppiced or split? Do we have reasonable measurements or estimates for maximum shaft width, if they were tapered in one or two directions?

EDIT: Forgot to add--Rod, are you planning on a gorytos?

"And they crossed swords."
--William Goldman, alias S. Morgenstern
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,323

PostPosted: Wed 13 Mar, 2019 9:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kai Lawson wrote:
Man that looks like so much fun. This thread is really great.

Matthew Amt, are there many reports (ancient literature or excavation reports) about what woods were used for ancient spears (mostly the smaller guys; not really looking for the long sarissa guys)? Maybe whether they were coppiced or split? Do we have reasonable measurements or estimates for maximum shaft width, if they were tapered in one or two directions?


Very little. Ash is mentioned in literature, and I *think* also poplar? Offhand I don't know if any wood from Greek spears has been analyzed, but it's possible I'm just not remembering something. There has been a lot of talk about coppiced shafts or split/quarter-sawn, etc., but I don't know if the evidence indicates much.

Buttspikes generally have larger diameter sockets than heads, and the balance points on spears are often shown as being very far back, so it's logical to conclude that the shafts were tapered, much thinner towards the business end. Of course, they wouldn't do that with a spear meant to be thrown (or thrown/thrust).

I would say the maximum thickness for a spearshaft is about an inch.

Matthew
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Rod Walker




Location: NSW, Australia.
Joined: 05 Feb 2004

Posts: 220

PostPosted: Sat 16 Mar, 2019 5:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am planning to make a gorytus, just need to set aside some time to do it.

I've used ash for the shaft of my dory. I had some 28.6mm here so I used that. I tapered the spear end, but it could do with being tapered from the balance point forward. I'll have to do that at some stage.

I stripped the kopis/falcata scabbard and hey! Turns out it is made from some sort of wood cardboard hybrid!


Anyway, recovered it in layers of glue and calico and sealed it with a lacquer to give it some sort of waterproofing.



Made the baldric from cotton, (lets pretend it is goat hair), and attached to new leather hangers. Reused the brass chape and mouth.



I was going to remake the opening so it had the mouth that encased the first part of the hilt. But there was no point. I'll make a proper scabbard when I make a better kopis.

I love this one.

Cheers

Rod
Jouster
www.jousting.com.au

"Come! Let us lay a lance in rest,
And tilt at windmills under a wild sky!
For who would live so petty and unblessed
That dare not tilt at something, ere he die?"
--Errantry, John Galsworthy
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website


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