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T. Diamante
Location: United States Joined: 09 Aug 2016
Posts: 70
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 Posted: Fri 13 Jan, 2017 10:58 am Post subject: |
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I agree that DSA puts out a lot of propaganda; my hope is that this is a real improvement in response to the numerous complaints they've gotten. Of course, this is just an assumption of mine, and I'm basing it off the fact that they've never bothered to do it before. And as has been pointed out in the past, it would be the most logical thing to do(fix a major issue, less money lost on returns and a better reputation.) Perhaps I'm being too hopeful?
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Leo Todeschini
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sun 15 Jan, 2017 5:33 am Post subject: |
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T.Diamante wrote | Quote: | | I agree that DSA puts out a lot of propaganda; my hope is that this is a real improvement in response to the numerous complaints they've gotten. Of course, this is just an assumption of mine, and I'm basing it off the fact that they've never bothered to do it before. And as has been pointed out in the past, it would be the most logical thing to do(fix a major issue, less money lost on returns and a better reputation.) Perhaps I'm being too hopeful? |
My major issue with DSA is that they are not addressing the fundamental issue with where their goods are manufactured in a way that is believable. If they are made in a different country then there is nothing wrong with that; HT blades are good and are made in China for example; many of the Windlass offerings are good and come from India. - no problem with that at all.
My problem is that DSA don't, won't, can't prove they are made in Canada and so at that price point and with an absence of evidence, I assume they are made offshore. If they are made offshore, then perhaps they have been saying this for so long that they now can't climb down from this position.
So I am left assuming they are made offshore and in this scenario I see it as both laughable and shameful that they will not admit this and every time they claim they are made in Canada, to me, they look more and more silly. For clarity when I say 'made' I mean the manufacture of the components, not the final assembly, which may be done in Canada.
So the way I see it, with my assumptions made from a lack of alternative evidence, is that if they cannot admit to what is clearly the case, how can I believe anything else that they say?
If it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, I believe it is a duck; even if others claim it is an eagle.
Tod
www.todsworkshop.com
www.todcutler.com
www.instagram.com/todsworkshop
https://www.facebook.com/TodsWorkshop
www.youtube.com/user/todsstuff1
Last edited by Leo Todeschini on Sun 15 Jan, 2017 6:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mark Moore
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| Posted: Sun 15 Jan, 2017 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Well said, Tod. That's been my point(s) all along. The blades are OBVIOUSLY made God knows where, and also of obvious and highly questionable quality. Yes, they are ASSEMBLED in Canada...but not a shred of evidence they are forged there. Hell, I could open up a sword manufacturing facility using outsourced blades and fittings right here in my garage! And the quality would be guaranteed better.....'cause I'm a hard-ass.  .......McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Jean-Carle Hudon
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| Posted: Sun 15 Jan, 2017 6:22 am Post subject: Leo nailed it |
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I agree with Leo's assessment. The last time I checked with Quebec's Registry for companies, they were listed as an import-export business. As this impacts the fees they need to pay for our local Workman's Compensation it is quite significant. Fees for covering accidents in the workplace are in relation to the risk of injury, which is traditionally higher in places where you have physical work going on ( a forge ! ), than in clerical jobs ( import-export), thus much higher costs....Also, before their last move, their business was in an area where you could not reasonably operate a forge. a tightly knit suburb, and before that in a residential urban setting in Montreal, again not forge-friendly. I am all for reasonable doubt, but then they showed that strange little video supposedly showing the forge in action in their new location ( in Dorval), which forumites who know anything about forging thought hilarious. Having visited a few forges in my time, I had to agree. I do not understand the insistance this firm shows in its' claim that their product is Canadian made, though once the claim is made publicly,I guess they're stuck with it...maybe they are clinging to a technicality pertaining to assembly, though part assembly is a far cry from forging from billets. In any event, their product has been sufficiently criticized for its deficiencies, and they are not physically capable of remedying their defaults, which also is a strong indicator that they are not in charge of the production of the item. If they made it from scratch, they could correct the defaults...and apparently they cannot.
Bon coeur et bon bras
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T. Diamante
Location: United States Joined: 09 Aug 2016
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Sun 15 Jan, 2017 9:45 am Post subject: |
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These are all very valid points, both regarding the sourcing of their materials and their reputation in the past. I've followed DSA very loosely over the years; I've never made a purchase with them because of their reputation within the sword community.
Leo and Jean-Carle you both hit on a major point: regardless of their construction/quality it's difficult to justify a purchase from them when so many other makers are open about their practices.
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Victor R.
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| Posted: Sun 15 Jan, 2017 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| Leo Todeschini wrote: | | For clarity when I say 'made' I mean the manufacture of the components, not the final assembly, which may be done in Canada. |
I'm not sure what Canadian law says about this, or what US law may say about it as of now, but in the late 80's one of my summer jobs during college was with a temp agency that had me working at a Uniden facility just south of the DFW International airport. Mostly I was helping repair electronics, but one of the things we were doing (that pissed me off royally) was to take two pre-assembled TV satellite receiver components made entirely in Japan, shove one component into the other and repack them in boxes with a "Made in USA" sticker slapped onto it. Apparently, this little bit of "assembly" qualified as "made" at that point and meant reduced import tariffs on the product since neither component was functional separately. After that experience, and seeing how the Japanese management treated non-Japanese personnel (white males were treated somewhat as human; if you were non-white or a woman, you were barely even acknowledged) I have avoided as much as possible the purchase of any item of known Japanese manufacture That's getting pretty difficult where electronics are concerned, but I do the best I can.
While Eyal can't ever reasonably claim the term "forged" and have anyone believe him, maybe under Canadian import and tariff laws the assembly of components allows him to claim the term "made".
It's all a bunch of misleading legal smoke and mirrors, but it is the only reasonable explanation as to why DSA has legally gotten away with the sham for so long.
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Kel Rekuta
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| Posted: Tue 17 Jan, 2017 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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He gets away with it because no one has filed and pursued a complaint regarding his claims. If someone did bother, he'd be sorted out by a bureaucrat.
This explains the policies about claiming Canadian manufacture. (from 2009)
http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/c...#enG-3-2-2
Its probably fair to say the market is so small that whatever agency is currently tasked to deal with this has more pressing matters.
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Ryan Renfro
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| Posted: Tue 17 Jan, 2017 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Kel Rekuta wrote: | He gets away with it because no one has filed and pursued a complaint regarding his claims. If someone did bother, he'd be sorted out by a bureaucrat.
This explains the policies about claiming Canadian manufacture. (from 2009)
http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/c...#enG-3-2-2
Its probably fair to say the market is so small that whatever agency is currently tasked to deal with this has more pressing matters. |
From the Penalties and Remedies section on that page:
"A corporation or an individual can also be ordered to pay restitution to purchasers of a product in respect of which a false or misleading representation was made. The amount of restitution may be up to the total amount paid to the corporation or individual for the products in respect of which the false or misleading representation was made."
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