What Is This Longsword? Place? Time? Then and Now? -- myArmoury.com

Jon Makar

Hello Fellow Forumites,

So, I have been lurking on myArmoury for years now, imbibing information, biding my time, waiting. All of my many, many questions pertaining to arms and armour have been answered via nothing any more difficult than a simple keyword search. This is an amazing site; a diamond in the rough in terms of historical discussion.

My questions are pertaining to the following ~ 15th century sword that I recently stumbled across a picture of on Pinterest (dangerous, I know). This is the only picture of this particular piece that I have found, and I can find nothing else pertaining to it, even after searching the treasure trove that is myArmoury. My questions are: what are its place of origin, the exact decades of the 15th century that the sword is dated to, where it resides now, can anyone provide me with any other pictures of it, and is it even an historical piece? Also, in terms of modern classification of it's form, would you all consider it to be a Type XVa blade, with a Type J pommel? Also, would the crossguard be a Type 7 one with a pointed, flared écusson, or a Type 8 that is curved towards the blade? Also also, with respect to it being a legitimate historical specimen, it seems to be in amazing condition, thus I wonder if it has been modified along its long journey. It is an absolutely beautiful sword, and is quickly growing to be among my list of favourite historical longswords, so I would appreciate any amount of information that you guys can find for me.

Thank you all, and have a great evening,

Jon Makar

J.D. Crawford · Posted: Wed 28 Sep, 2016 7:35 pm Post subject:

You can find this sword described on page 135 of Oakeshott's 'Records of the Medieval Sword'. He calls it an XV, with cross type 8 (curved). He dates it 1400-1450 but notes that some experts of his day thought it might be a 19th century fake.

Lloyd Winter · Posted: Wed 28 Sep, 2016 8:40 pm Post subject:

I think it's in the Met but I couldn't find it in a quick search

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

You or somebody else took the image from our article:

Spotlight: Oakeshott Type XV Swords

Simple read about it there.

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

Del Tin makes a version of it. Read our hands-on reivew.

It comes with all-steel fittings or bronze/brass fittings.

Jon Makar · Posted: Wed 28 Sep, 2016 9:49 pm Post subject:

Hmmm....perhaps my suspicions of its authenticity are correct then. And how did I overlook that!? I've definitely read that page before - maybe I just was only paying attention to the XVa's, and I honestly thought that this specimen was a XVa! Whelp, better start reading again!

It's funny, as soon as I began doubting it's authenticity, I noticed that the crossguard almost seems too thick compared to other historical specimens, and that the wheel pommel subtended by that tapered block looks as though it is a Type J with a peen block turned upside down. And a greenish horn grip? Are there any accounts of 15th century swords with horn grips? Dubious indeed...What are your guys' thoughts on its authenticity?

Also, what do you guys know anything about the longsword below? The Pinterest poster said that it was dated from 1300-1350, located in Reichsstadtmuseum, Rothenburg, Germany. Is it a longsword of German make? Is that an accurate assessment of the period it was in use? The brass inlays on it are gorgeous!

Thanks again,

Jon Makar

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

Pinterest... the biggest intellectual property and copyright law breaker of them all.

That image is mine, too. I created it. You can read about it on our Facebook Page where I published it:

Click here to see the image and read more about it

Everything from the Rothenburg Collection needs to be looked at with scrutiny and suspicion. Many, many things in that collection are fakes; perhaps old, but not from the period depicted. I suspect that sword in question is one of them.

Jon Makar · Posted: Thu 29 Sep, 2016 5:15 am Post subject:

Thanks Nathan, you're grrrrreat! *Tony Tiger*

Though I am sad about all of your photos being ripped and posted on Pinterest. I will duly note that about the Rothenburg collection. It's too bad that there are so many people who couldn't just enjoy history at its face value and beauty; that so many had to change what they saw to what they wanted everyone else to see.

Ok, so, last one I promise!!! Anybody know anything about this longsword? It looks northern without a doubt...And, following popular trend, it's probably also Mr. Robinson's photo.

Thanks again,

Jon Makar

JG Elmslie · Industry Professional

In an unprecedented shocker, that one is in fact from the musée de l'Armée, Paris.

Despite the fact that everyone and their cat on the internet claims its a "danish two handed sword", Its German, hand and a half, 15th century (dated to 1480). in the catalogues, its N° D’inventaire 1962 PO ; J

1.26m (49.6inches for those who've yet to join the rest of the world)

another photo here:
http://www.photo.rmn.fr/archive/06-527119-2C6NU0PL82NT.html

Mark Lewis · Posted: Thu 29 Sep, 2016 7:31 am Post subject:

Guillaume Vauthier · Posted: Thu 29 Sep, 2016 9:14 am Post subject:

Wow, I recognize the no. 355 on this pic to be exposed too at the Musée de l'Armée, just next to their beautiful (and famous) falchion.

I must add that the staff of the Musée de l'Armée is awesome. I asked them for more details about the falchion and a beautiful type XIV which is the same showcase, and they very kindly flooded me with datas and photographies. So I guess that if you want to know more about these swords, you can ask.

Mark Lewis · Posted: Thu 29 Sep, 2016 10:12 am Post subject:

Guillaume Vauthier · Posted: Thu 29 Sep, 2016 11:23 am Post subject:

J.D. Crawford · Posted: Thu 29 Sep, 2016 2:00 pm Post subject:

Guillaume Vauthier · Posted: Thu 29 Sep, 2016 2:12 pm Post subject:

Jon Makar · Posted: Thu 29 Sep, 2016 2:41 pm Post subject:

Ooh, the 353 is so very lovely! And the Type XIV and falchion are also beautiful! Thanks for sharing everyone!

J.D. Crawford · Posted: Thu 29 Sep, 2016 5:16 pm Post subject:

Merci, Guillaume.

Jon Makar · Posted: Thu 29 Sep, 2016 5:41 pm Post subject:

My next question is: how common is the curved variety of Type 8 crossguard? It seems to appear on more arming swords than longswords, par example,

http://wallacelive.wallacecollection.org/eMus...detailView

OR

http://sword-site.com/thread/159/oakeshott-ty...eval-sword

Does it happen to appear on any longswords that we know for sure are authentic? Because the two first swords that I asked about on this post (the first sort of hand and a half-ish "Type XV" with the goofy pommel and horn grip, and the second one with brass inlays) are both possibly not authentic historical pieces. Would one consider the third German longsword that I posted to have a curved Type 8 guard, or would that be considered a Type 7 or other type of guard? Do you guys have any other examples of longswords with a curved Type 8 crossguard that you could show me?

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

Check out page 4 of our Oakeshott article:

http://myArmoury.com/feature_oakeshott4.html

Cross-guards are defined by styles. That first sword looks more like a Style 9 to me... but I'm no expert due to typology only being somewhat interesting to me and only looked quickly.

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin