| Author |
Message |
Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
|
 Posted: Wed 12 Jan, 2005 3:51 pm Post subject: 'Hounsloe' bladed baskethilt backsword ! |
 |
|
English Horseman's Sword
About 1700, hilt of pierced and chiselled iron, the blade inscribed: ME FECIT HOUNSLOE
M.4-1956. Victoria and Albert Museum
Photo: The Spring 2004 London Park Lane Arms Fair, Article entitled: "Hounslow Hangers" by Anthony North.
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
Last edited by Thomas McDonald on Fri 14 Jan, 2005 8:48 am; edited 2 times in total
|
|
   |
 |
Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
|
| Posted: Wed 12 Jan, 2005 3:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This is the one Hanwei based their sh-2003 basket hilt on:
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
|
|
 |
|
Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
|
| Posted: Wed 12 Jan, 2005 4:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ahh ....interesting, Chad .....I knew I'd seen this design somewhere before !
Good eye , Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
|
|
|
|
|
|
Adam Lloyd
Location: Chicago, IL Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 91
|
| Posted: Thu 13 Jan, 2005 12:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
Oh I love that! Do you know who or what that face is supposed to be? What sort of significance etc?
|
|
|
|
|
|
E.B. Erickson
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Thu 13 Jan, 2005 5:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hey all,
Besides this example, the W.R. Hearst collection had one of these, and it made the gunshow rounds in the mid-80s in Calif. The hilt, while large enough for gloved cav usage, wasn't overly large. Unfortunately I can't recall much about the blade except that it was a signed fullered backsword. The face is a grotesque, a pretty common motif in the 1600s, that was still used in the 1700s. As far as I know, the face is just decorative.
Thomas, I note that this sword is from an article about Hounslow swords-- any other photos? Maybe worthy of another thread?
--ElJay
|
|
|
|
|
|
E.B. Erickson
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Thu 13 Jan, 2005 5:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
I just noticed that the photo has been retouched by someone who didn't understand baskethilt construction! Take a look at the openwork heart terminal of the sideplate!
|
|
|
|
|
Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
|
| Posted: Thu 13 Jan, 2005 5:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| E.B. Erickson wrote: | Hey all,
Besides this example, the W.R. Hearst collection had one of these, and it made the gunshow rounds in the mid-80s in Calif. The hilt, while large enough for gloved cav usage, wasn't overly large. Unfortunately I can't recall much about the blade except that it was a signed fullered backsword. The face is a grotesque, a pretty common motif in the 1600s, that was still used in the 1700s. As far as I know, the face is just decorative.
Thomas, I note that this sword is from an article about Hounslow swords-- any other photos? Maybe worthy of another thread? --ElJay |
Hi Eljay
Yes, in addition to this one there are 8 other photo's.
* I'd meant to scan & send you the article (and 'ol Scott Bubar came to mind, as well .... Scott would have enjoyed it !)
One interesting bit I took away from the article was the fact that they know the names of some of the blade makers from Hounslow Heath, but know virtually nothing about who made the hilts ? The possibility exists that they may have been made elsewhere, in London ?, and brought to Hounslow for assembly ?
It's a good read ..... I'll have to send it on to you ! Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
|
|
|
|
|
Henrik Bjoern Boegh
Location: Agder, Norway Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 386
|
| Posted: Thu 13 Jan, 2005 6:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the pic, Mac!
I'm currently waiting for one of those practical Hanwei backswords with that hilt. And therefor I've become a bit more interessed in the English basket hilts from the end of the 17th - beginning of the 18th century.
Could you please scan the article and send it to my e-mail??? I would be very grateful.
Didn't the British cavalery use this style (not this excact model) of hilt from Charles II's restoration to the early 1700s?
I also noticed that Angus McBride has used this model as an example of the type of baskethilts that were shipped to the Caribbean and sold to pirates. Do any of you know more of the basket hilt trade to the Caribbean, which according to Angus Konstam started in 1668? I've only read this in the Osprey books by the to named "Anguses".
Cheers,
Henrik
Constant and true.
Last edited by Henrik Bjoern Boegh on Mon 17 Jan, 2005 3:47 am; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
|
| Posted: Thu 13 Jan, 2005 8:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi Henrik
Send me your e-mail address and I will send it on, as I got it scanned to file ! (5 pages total)
Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
|
|
|
|
|
Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
|
| Posted: Fri 14 Jan, 2005 8:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| E.B. Erickson wrote: | | I just noticed that the photo has been retouched by someone who didn't understand baskethilt construction! Take a look at the openwork heart terminal of the sideplate! |
Hi Eljay
I'd missed this comment of yours ....
Yes indeed, good eye ! The heart should not be behind the main guard !
Someone goofed that one !
Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
|
|
|
|
|
Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
|
| Posted: Fri 14 Jan, 2005 8:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hmm .... unless the hearts end was broken off , ? , and were seeing the other sides heart terminal there ?
(I guess I just can't figure why someone would touch only that area up ? )
Maybe it's a V&A test .... and only Eljay has passed ;-) Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
|
|
|
|
|
Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
|
| Posted: Fri 14 Jan, 2005 8:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'll have to check with Vince about this one, as he has photographed a bunch of stuff at the V&A.
( one basket there has a really cool 'flower within a flower' front screen that he showed me once)
I plan on calling him tonite, if he's free, and I will run this by him ! Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
|
|
|
|
|
|
Adam Lloyd
Location: Chicago, IL Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 91
|
| Posted: Fri 14 Jan, 2005 6:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
I'm sorry but I have stared at that photo for a long time now and I can't find the bad retoucihng. Can you point it out some how by cropping it out or drawing a circle around the area? I'm generally pretty experienced seeing baskethilts but I can't see it for hte life of me and its frustrating
|
|
|
|
|
Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
|
| Posted: Fri 14 Jan, 2005 8:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Adam Lloyd wrote: | | I'm sorry but I have stared at that photo for a long time now and I can't find the bad retoucihng. Can you point it out some how by cropping it out or drawing a circle around the area? I'm generally pretty experienced seeing baskethilts but I can't see it for hte life of me and its frustrating |
Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
|
|
|
|
|
Henrik Bjoern Boegh
Location: Agder, Norway Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 386
|
| Posted: Mon 17 Jan, 2005 3:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the article, Mac! Very interesting.
Do you think some of the houndslow blades found their way to the caribbean?
Do you know if there are any other basket hilted swords fitted with houndslow blades???
Cheers, Henrik
Constant and true.
|
|
|
|
|
Henrik Bjoern Boegh
Location: Agder, Norway Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 386
|
| Posted: Mon 17 Jan, 2005 3:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | ( one basket there has a really cool 'flower within a flower' front screen that he showed me once)
|
I know which one you mean. It really caught my eye when I visitet Victoria and Albert. Isn't that an Allan hilt?
Cheers, Henrik
Constant and true.
|
|
|
|
|
Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
|
| Posted: Mon 17 Jan, 2005 8:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Henrik Bjoern Boegh wrote: | Thanks for the article, Mac! Very interesting.
Do you think some of the hounslow blades found their way to the caribbean?
Do you know if there are any other basket hilted swords fitted with hounslow blades???
Cheers, Henrik |
Hi Henrik
I've not come across any information in my travels that stated that they did or didn't ?
I can't see why they would not have made it to the caribbean, though !
While searching for something else I came across another pic of this V&A basket w/ Hounsloe blade !
This is a view of the opposite side (left) and clearly shows that the heart terminal, on the right side plate, is broken off and missing !
Mystery solved ;-) Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
Last edited by Thomas McDonald on Tue 18 Jan, 2005 5:39 am; edited 4 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
|
| Posted: Mon 17 Jan, 2005 8:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Henrik Bjoern Boegh wrote: | | Quote: | | ( one basket there has a really cool 'flower within a flower' front screen that he showed me once) |
I know which one you mean. It really caught my eye when I visitet Victoria and Albert. Isn't that an Allan hilt?
Cheers, Henrik |
Hi , again, Henik
There are elements about that hilt that are very Allan-ish ..... but it is not listed as such ?
Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
|
|
|
|
|
Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
|
| Posted: Mon 17 Jan, 2005 9:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
More baskethilts with Hounsloe blades ! Mac
* Photos : {from the excellent book} "Swords and Sword Makers of England and Scotland" by Richard H. Bezdek, 2003.
ISBN 1-58160-399-1, published by Paladin Press.
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
|
|
|
|
|
|
E.B. Erickson
Industry Professional
|
| Posted: Wed 19 Jan, 2005 4:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
So here's some more Hounslow blades in a variety of hilts.
The first is in the V&A, and is signed on the right of the blade "IOHANNES KINNDT", and on the other side "HOUNSLO 1634". There's another one by the same smith shown in the article by Hayward that's here in the myArmoury reference section.
The other photo has several hilt types, and all the blades are signed "Hounslo" or a variation thereof.
--ElJay
 Attachment: 26.95 KB
Attachment: 12.24 KB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This is a standard topic