Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > What type of dagger is this? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Jasper B.




Location: Europe
Joined: 09 Dec 2014
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Thu 06 Aug, 2015 3:08 am    Post subject: What type of dagger is this?         Reply with quote

What type of dagger is this?



I originally thought that this is a Holbein dagger, but looking at examples of Holbein daggers leads me to believe that it is not.

Does anyone know what type of dagger it is? Where was it used? in what age?

Regards,
J.B.[/img]



 Attachment: 57.94 KB
Dagger.jpg

View user's profile Send private message
Mark Griffin




Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys.
Joined: 28 Dec 2006

Posts: 801

PostPosted: Thu 06 Aug, 2015 4:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

it kind of falls into the 'baselard' category, so its a bit earlier than the Swiss/Holbein style.
Currently working on projects ranging from Elizabethan pageants to a WW1 Tank, Victorian fairgrounds 1066 events and more. Oh and we joust loads!.. We run over 250 events for English Heritage each year plus many others for Historic Royal Palaces, Historic Scotland, the National Trust and more. If you live in the UK and are interested in working for us just drop us a line with a cv.
View user's profile Send private message
Tim Jones




Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 05 Nov 2013

Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu 06 Aug, 2015 1:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From what I can remember there's quite a few of them in 13th century art. I can vaguely remember something about a specific term, but I'm probably mistaken.
View user's profile Send private message
Gábor Benko




Location: Hungary
Joined: 08 Feb 2015

Posts: 19

PostPosted: Thu 06 Aug, 2015 3:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It reminds me a little bit to a dagger type, which was popular in the XIVth century Hungarian Kingdom.

The dagger type-s name in the sources is "bicellus"

"Usque ad finem"
View user's profile Send private message
William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 11 Jul 2010

Posts: 1,436

PostPosted: Fri 07 Aug, 2015 6:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gábor Benko wrote:
It reminds me a little bit to a dagger type, which was popular in the XIVth century Hungarian Kingdom.

The dagger type-s name in the sources is "bicellus"


that explains the source fir this dagger in mount and blade: warband vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/mountandblade/images/5/5f/Dagger_(Warband).png/revision/latest?cb=20120311145653
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jasper B.




Location: Europe
Joined: 09 Dec 2014
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Sun 09 Aug, 2015 5:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tim Jones wrote:
From what I can remember there's quite a few of them in 13th century art. I can vaguely remember something about a specific term, but I'm probably mistaken.

That is very interesting. So it is not a baselard (I can see stylistic similarities but also notable differences)? But instead it is a dagger type from the 13th century? What region is the art you describe from?

J.B.
View user's profile Send private message
J. Nicolaysen




Location: Wyoming
Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Likes: 32 pages

Posts: 696

PostPosted: Sun 09 Aug, 2015 1:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
So it is not a baselard (I can see stylistic similarities but also notable differences)? But instead it is a dagger type from the 13th century? What region is the art you describe from?


No, Baselard is probably the best term.

The terms Baselard, Holbein and Swiss dagger are not exactly as specific as you might like. They can describe a dagger from a specific area such as Basl, Switzerland, or one with Holbeinesque designs on the scabbard, or something that just looks like one of these but may come from a different place altogether. Without some more information on the original picture, I don't know if anyone can give you a very specific answer. It's a popular shape and style and was used in different areas and times because of its comfortable grip and usefulness. You might as well call it a baselard since it has the characteristic "I" or "H" shaped guard. http://myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=165...d+basilard Some people could guess the hilt shape comes from the Basl examples but others might trace it back to the anthropomorphic hilts of bronze or early iron age. I think it is more of a case of good design crops up across the centuries.

There is also the Aunlaz dagger. A&A makes one from the Royal Armouries, the original which looks very similar to the Hungarian bicellus above. In fact, I would think it is the same picture without more information about the Hungarian example. http://www.myArmoury.com/review_aa_aunlaz.html

However, Aunlaz is not a specific term either. I remember a reference to it in one of Oakeshott's books, probably Archaeology of Weapons, but I can't find my copy right now. As I recall this single reference didn't have anything to mention of the Baselard type!

Anyhow the I shaped hilt and the thicker cutting/stabbing style blade rather than a piercing blade of many Ballock daggers would just have me call it a Baselard and start researching there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baselard and manuscript miniatures of course. The general time period of 13 and 14 century is about right since later, other dagger forms became more popular. As for area, it could be anywhere across western and central Europe I think.

Some people write Basilard too.
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > What type of dagger is this?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum