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Niels Just Rasmussen
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 Posted: Tue 02 Jun, 2015 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| John Hardy wrote: | | Niels Just Rasmussen wrote: | Just to bring this find to light.
A Crucible-Steel sword (!) found at Yaroslavl in Russia very probably from the sack of the town in 1238, where Mongol General Borondai/Buruldai - serving under Batu Khan - slaughtered the entire population.
The sword is bend, so it is probably most likely a ritualistic way for the conquerers to slay the enemy weapon (as it was previously done by Germanic people in Europe).
So is this really a sword? It seems quite thick (though it can be single edged and we see the weapon from the thicker side)?
Source: http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archi...aeologists |
Maybe the sword was the town's ceremonial "bearing sword" or "sword of state". This would explain both an unusually thick and heavy blade that would make the sword unwieldy as a weapon AND the treatment it was given -- destroying the town's symbol of government, much like tossing the Parliamentary Mace on the fire.... |
Yeah something like that could be entirely possible.
I was also thinking that maybe the sword doesn't look quite finished - so still in the process of being made - then the city was conquered and the sword destroyed?
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Shahril Dzulkifli
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| Posted: Sun 14 Jun, 2015 3:06 am Post subject: Seems like there have been some good discoveries of late! |
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This one´s not about weapons being unearthed but it's about a skeleton found inside a tomb dating from Alexander the Great's time in Amphipolis.
Amphipolis Skeleton
“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”
- Marcus Aurelius
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Pieter B.
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| Posted: Thu 25 Jun, 2015 9:17 am Post subject: |
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http://www.sax.nu/international/681255/Archae...in_Dalfsen
| Quote: | Students and alumni of Saxion’s Archaeology course made a 5000-year-old top discovery in Dalfsen. They did this together with other archaeologists from the State University of Groningen. It concerns a complete burial ground from the Stone Age.
The cemetery is the largest in northwest Europe and a unique find for the Netherlands. As many as 121 funnel-beakers with spectacular grave gifts and even an earthen monument from the time of the Hunebed (megalith tomb) builders were uncovered. |
And just today another grave turned up near the one above.
http://www.ouderenjournaal.nl/home/2015/06/25...-gevonden/
Merovingian grave found.
| Quote: | The graves that are now found are rich with grave goods that the dead could use in the afterlife. The grave of a man contains an iron kettle, a glass water bottle, an ax and a sword with inlaid handle.
In a woman's tomb goods found included four cloak pins and a necklace of amber. The fragile finds are transferred to a laboratory where they are cleaned, preserved and studied. |
And yet another discovery.
http://www.nu.nl/wetenschap/4075222/restanten...enter.html
Part of a (seagoing)ship wreck from around 1500 found near Deventer.
As both of these finds were just from today no pictures have been published yet.
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Roger Hooper
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Tue 14 Jul, 2015 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Awesome! I like it more than the famous Finnish one!
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Roger Hooper
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| Posted: Tue 14 Jul, 2015 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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Peter Johnsson mentions this sword on his Facebook Page - and says he wants to make it. I wonder if it might end up as an Albion NG or Museum Line piece?
Below is another view of the hilt. The hand holding the cross is at the top of the pommel - the hand faces down the hilt, and you can see the thumb - the cross is at right angle to the hand. It took me awhile to see it.
 Attachment: 99.25 KB
Last edited by Roger Hooper on Wed 15 Jul, 2015 11:33 am; edited 2 times in total
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Niels Just Rasmussen
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jul, 2015 10:56 am Post subject: |
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It can now also with DNA studies be established with a high degree of certainty, that a massive population turnover happened in Northern Europe in the earliest Bronze Age (2000 BC).
Nature News: http://www.nature.com/news/dna-data-explosion...ge-1.17723
The Corded Ware culture are beside culturally- and linguistically- now also certainly genetically related with the Yamnaya Culture north of the Black Sea. So the long heated discussion whether cultural spreading are because of "movements of ideas" OR "movement of people".
In this instance it seems clearly a Movement of People causes the cultural change:
So the "Nordic Bronze Age" is the influx of a Proto-Indo-European group, evolving later into Germanic Languages and the ancestors of the Iron-Viking Age Scandinavians.
It does also tentatively support the idea - that inside the Indo-European Linguistic tree - Germanic and Balto-Slavic might be closer related than Germanic is to Italo-Celtic (though in the later Iron age Celtic and Germanic did share a lot of loaned words, but perhaps because if proximity).
Also explains why Scandinavians today have one of the highest rates of lactose tolerances in the world (whereas the Neolithic people living before the Indo-Europeans were generally lactose intolerant - for instance Ötzi).
Corded Ware culture is an ethnic Indo-European Culture spreading and displacing other people........
Source: http://sciencenordic.com/sites/default/files/...isplay.jpg
A recent Bronze Age find (thus Indo-European) from Denmark (Boeslunde) of 2000 pure gold spirals could be a fringe from a golden hat, some other equipment or sown into a golden garment for a Solar Highpriest/King in the Late Bronze Age (900-700 BC).
Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-33463497
Bronze Age Golden Hats from Central Europe [that is probably why in folklore "wizards" have high hats].
Source: http://members.westnet.com.au/gary-david-thom...0Cones.jpg
Last edited by Niels Just Rasmussen on Fri 24 Jul, 2015 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Niels Just Rasmussen
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jul, 2015 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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From the graves at Landeid in Setesdalen, they have actually found 9 axes, 1 spearhead, 2 swords and 2 saxes.
What is really interesting with this find is that it is a Christian Sword found in a pagan burial chamber in 1030 AD in Norge after it was officially Christian.
It can only mean that the person in question had wished specifically for a pagan burial and his wishes were met.
It also highlights that a warrior often received their sword as a gift from the King/Chieftain, whose Hird they were part of.
So a pagan warrior in service of a Christian Lord is the most likely case.
We have textual evidence for this:
Saxo described the Danish Christian Chieftain Skjalm Hvide having a Berserk called Aslak as retainer and he went Berserk in a battle clearing almost an entire enemy ship with an oaken stick meant to be made into an oar.
[Berserks are clearly tied to Odin].
That was the during the great Naval Battle of Niså in 1062, where Norwegian King Harald Hardrada beat the Danish King Svend Estridsen, but failed to conquer Denmark.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Nis%C3%A5
So Harald turned his gaze towards England, and failed again in 1066.
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jul, 2015 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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How do we know the burial is pagan? The other grave mentioned is obviously christian as it says among other things "God is one".
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T. Kew
Location: London, UK Joined: 21 Apr 2012
Posts: 256
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jul, 2015 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Luka Borscak wrote: | | How do we know the burial is pagan? The other grave mentioned is obviously christian as it says among other things "God is one". |
Well, for a start it includes weapons.
Burying someone with armaments, at that point in Norwegian history, is basically a way to directly say that you are burying them as a pagan. Weapon burials in an unambiguously Christian context would be incredibly unusual - I genuinely can't think of any.
Other graves in the vague area being potentially Christian doesn't speak one way or the other. This is during the period of Christianisation, and individual families or persons would hold varying religious beliefs.
There are other indicators that are also relevant, like the orientation of the body. Does anyone have a copy of the full archaeological report?
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Roger Hooper
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| Posted: Wed 15 Jul, 2015 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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The weapons were found near, but outside of the coffin - sword on one side, axe on the other. I wonder if that is significant. It could be that this guy was a Christian AND a pagan. Correct me if I'm wrong, but It wasn't unusual for a Norseman at this time to have a foot in both camps.
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Niels Just Rasmussen
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| Posted: Thu 16 Jul, 2015 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| T. Kew wrote: | | Luka Borscak wrote: | | How do we know the burial is pagan? The other grave mentioned is obviously christian as it says among other things "God is one". |
Well, for a start it includes weapons.
Burying someone with armaments, at that point in Norwegian history, is basically a way to directly say that you are burying them as a pagan. Weapon burials in an unambiguously Christian context would be incredibly unusual - I genuinely can't think of any.
Other graves in the vague area being potentially Christian doesn't speak one way or the other. This is during the period of Christianisation, and individual families or persons would hold varying religious beliefs.
There are other indicators that are also relevant, like the orientation of the body. Does anyone have a copy of the full archaeological report? |
Yeah very true.
Having grave goods in general is what separates pagan and christian burials. Also being buried in a mound (or Kurgan as they are called in Russia) including a grave chamber.
So finding this guy in a burial chamber with weapons as grave goods is as ultra pagan as it gets......
Thats why the sword is likely an indicator of the religion of his Chieftain/King - not the warrior himself - as he would have received the sword as a gift as it was common Germanic usage.
The orientation of the body in a pagan burial can wary all over the place and be east-west as in a Christian burial, so it is not in itself an indicator. You have many pagan graves with east-west orientation going back in time (which in fact is Pagan. A real Christian should be burial according to the direction of Jerusalem, not the pagan idea of the sun in the east).
In Scandinavia viking age you have Inhumation graves and cremation graves. In no mounds, small mounds, big mounds, colossal mounds. You have ship-graves made of stone setting, people buried in actual ships etc etc
The rule is basically that every pagan burial is different - probably to show the INDIVIDUALISM of the deceased.
Christian burials strive to be similar. No grave goods, same direction, not in mounds, no special burial chambers.
A hypothesis is that the graves were sometimes orientated towards to major roads. Rune stones were also erected by major roads, at bridges and other prominent sports where they could be seen as Testament of that person and that the remaining family claimed land by raising them on these locations.
Even more complicated is the interesting idea that the body was buried in direction depending of the time of the year! So the orientation of the body is one way when buried in wintertime, another in summertime.
A Jewish merchant from Spain Ibrahim ibn Yacoub al-Tartushi (of Tortosa) visited Hedeby in Denmark and he said they worshiped Sirius (The Dog Star). Maybe some Scandinavian bodies were buried towards the direction of Sirius......
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Niels Just Rasmussen
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| Posted: Thu 16 Jul, 2015 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| Roger Hooper wrote: | | The weapons were found near, but outside of the coffin - sword on one side, axe on the other. I wonder if that is significant. It could be that this guy was a Christian AND a pagan. Correct me if I'm wrong, but It wasn't unusual for a Norseman at this time to have a foot in both camps. |
You had many Scandinavian, that found it lucrative to get Primesigned [primo signatio] as you got free gifts! It didn't make you a Christian, but you accepted the sign of the cross. You were then regarded as acceptable to both pagans and christian, which were important for traders. So you could travel from place to place getting multiple primesignings.
In Scandinavia you had to have the same religion as your King and Chieftain. So if your King converted to Christianity you had to convert as well to remain part of his "Hird".
Harald Bluetooth made the Danes Christians (as he states on his great Runestone at Jelling) because HE had converted (doesn't matter if you got baptized personally, as King Harald made all Danes Christans by HIS conversion alone).
What is interested in this Norwegian example is the date ~1030 AD.
That is the death of the Christian Norwegian "King Olaf II Haraldsson the Holy" at the Battle of Stiklestad 1030 against freedom fighters of Kingdoms, that didn't want to be consumed by Christian "Norway". The pagan Thorir Hund (Chief in Hålogaland) was one of them and these anti-Norwegian "Norwegians" sided with Canute the Great.
If this guy was part of King Olaf's Hird he would nominally have to be Christian and could have received the sword as a gift from the King. When the King had died, that obligation was over - he and his family was no longer bound as all connections in Viking Age time were personal - and he could be buried as a pagan in what HE believed in (not his King's faith).
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Craig Johnson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 12 Oct, 2015 6:20 am Post subject: One of Henry V ships |
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Here is a BBC article on the possible find of another one of Henry's ships from the hundred years war.
Henry V's ship Holigost
There are few details and sounds like they need to do some excavation prior to any absolute id, but still an interesting find.
Craig
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Tomek Kowmal Ciupinski
Industry Professional
Location: Lodz, Poland Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 130
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| Posted: Mon 12 Oct, 2015 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Sword found a lover of history when searching in and around Jerzwałdu.
According to archaeologists, this may be - unique in the lands of ancient Balts - type sword Spath from the late Roman period. The discovery already went to the Museum of Warmia and Mazury in Olsztyn.
During the archaeological excavations carried out so far between lower Vistula and the Niemen, it was discovered only a few copies of such weapons - including the cemetery kurhanowym the Suwalki and the tomb of a warrior on the peninsula of Sambia.
When you conducted this summer by the Museum of Warmia and Mazury
k archaeological expedition. Jerzwałdu excavated nearly a thousand objects,
including several shoes, or sword scabbard fittings - such a large collection of
type has so far no museum in Poland. They also found the grave of incinerator
X-XI century. Archaeologists speculate that discovered the unique world
Western Balts trade settlement associated with the legendary Truso - Viking
port, which existed from the eighth to the eleventh century at the mouth of the Vistula.
Article by
http://www.tvn24.pl/pomorze,42/milosnik-histo...84470.html
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Pieter B.
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| Posted: Mon 12 Oct, 2015 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: One of Henry V ships |
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| Craig Johnson wrote: | Here is a BBC article on the possible find of another one of Henry's ships from the hundred years war.
Henry V's ship Holigost
There are few details and sounds like they need to do some excavation prior to any absolute id, but still an interesting find.
Craig |
Oh that's great!
I feel there is still a lot of medieval naval history left to cover by historians. Which ship was the other one they found, I heard something about his flagship the Grace Dieu but I never saw the wreck or a reconstruction of it.
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Craig Johnson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 21 Oct, 2015 9:12 pm Post subject: Viking Sword Blade |
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Here is an article about a good day hiking 
Viking Sword Found
Craig
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Roger Hooper
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Craig Johnson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Tue 27 Oct, 2015 3:03 pm Post subject: Gold and Ivory hilt |
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Wow this is great stuff. I can not wait to see the sword out of the ground. The hilt pic is very intriguing and a gold and ivory detail will look very cool.
Craig
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Roger Hooper
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| Posted: Tue 27 Oct, 2015 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Here is a photo of that bronze sword hilt from the Pylos grave. It looks like a Type G Horn sword.
Attachment: 98.78 KB
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This is a 
