[Hector A.]

Hello Forum,

This thread was promised a little under a year ago, but has been delayed because of my ever growing collection and thirst for knowledge.

What does this thread consist of? The test of 5 long swords and 1 Katana against multiple mediums, a ranking of said swords, my overall impressions and what the results represent for me personally in the shaping of my beliefs and understanding of these weapons.

A little background on myself: i started collecting over a year ago, and ever since i have gotten a small but good quality collection of swords (ten total) and have tested 100's thanks to other generous collectors close to me. I have read countless sources of information in relations to weapons, armor, combat, cutting mediums, anatomy, construction methods, sharpening, polishing etc... I have always double checked information, confronted it and tested it, i am one of those people who can't live without exact verifiable knowledge.

My primary interest lies very clearly with long swords over all other weapons, despite having had first hand contact with them as well. ( I just like them the best ^^, i'm sure you have your favorites too)
This past year in terms of use i have cut 3 times a week and trained handling and combat 6 times a week, i have also learned to repair, sharpen and polish my weapons correctly.

Just to give an idea of how much time i have spent on all this, i would say that with all things considered within this subject and peripheral ones, i have spent a good 5h a day every day for the last year at this. Time in my opinion, well spent .
It would maybe be fair at this point to warn you my work allows me a lot of free time.

On to the subject at hand. The swords used are:

(These are not pictures of my own blades, i do not have a camera at hand, but they are pictures i feel represent better than others the overall proportions and shape of the swords used)

Albion Svante:



Albion Brescia Spadona:



Albion Alexandria:



Albion Cluny:



The Esslingen (named after the place of its birth, sword created by young custom smith Lukas MG):



Ronin Dojo Pro Katana:



I might mention others swords at times, rest assured that if i do it will be those that i have experience with in terms of handling and cutting.

Sword Sharpeness: All swords have a uniform sharpness to them, a 40-45 degree convex bevel, polished to 2000 grit and stropped.

Sword Polish: All have been Grey Scotch-brite pad finished over an existing 2000 grit mirror polish.

/!\Sword Sharpness and Polish will be addressed at the very end of this thread./!\

Lets start with a light target: Water in various bottled forms.

Targets: Water bottles of ranging sizes and hardness, milk cartons, hard and soft jugs.

The most popular and accessible targets of today's modern warrior. Its popularity is such that many reviews and impressions of a swords performance are based on them.

Success in bottle cutting is mostly edge alignment and speed.

The characteristics of a good bottle cutter are a thin, light and sharp blade.

Brescia: Pretty good bottle cutter, neutral weight, very thin bladed, easy to accelerate, cuts from its COP and a little above it. (Performance deteriorates considerably closer to the tip)
It will cut big soft jugs and milk cartons with ease. It starts to have trouble with harder plastic targets, like hard plastic jugs and especially lighter hard bottles (Fanta, Cola etc...), with these it takes extra speed and careful alignment to succeed.

Alexandria: "OK" bottle cutter, hefty, thin bladed, better than the Brescia at cutting closer to its tip, overall very similar to her but heavier and slower. it performs better on hard jugs than the Brescia does, but is worse at all the rest. Good control is needed to get the best out of it on this medium.

Svante: Terrible bottle cutter, heavy and thick, its worse than all of the others in the test at this particular task, if your a plastic recycling warrior, stay away from this one . I note it is possible to cut perfectly well with it but it will require more effort and skill than any other in the round up.

Cluny: Good bottle cutter, light, long and fast. The Cluny is the sword i can build up the most speed with, so it goes to reason it does pretty well on bottles, it does have its weaknesses however. It only cuts effectively at its COP, its point is terribly useless at cutting anything...period. It also performs less admirably against big hard jugs. Against everything else its a joy to wield. My personal favorite on this medium.

Katana: Decent bottle cutter, light, thick, stiff but short. Its thickness and relative shortness doesn't play in its favor when cutting and building up speed, it is however perfectly capable of dispatching any of the targets, failing none, and even doing pretty well on hard jugs compared to others. Despite being capable of doing them all it does so less well than others in the group, especially on the softer targets, hence the lower appreciation.

Esslingen: Excellent bottle cutter, light, fast, very thin and stiff (due to its temper and geometry, but not as much as the Katana or Svante however), this is hands down a godly bottle killer, its excellent at cutting all the targets with no difficulty what so ever, easy to accelerate and excellent cutter all the way to the tip. My wife's favorite and i must agree its the best of the group.


Ranking in the water bottle cutting test:

1. Esslingen
2. Cluny
3. Brescia
4. Katana
5. Alexandria
6. Svante

Not very surprised the heavier swords came last. Fatties are not built for speed :P.

Hesitated to add a section about piercing the bottles with the tip, on bottles it really boils down to the thinnest, narrowest point attached to the lightest sword wins.
Stiffness is not a factor with this batch of swords against these targets, they are all stiff enough to pierce without deforming on bottles.


Ranking in the water bottle piercing test:

1.Cluny
2.Brescia
3.Esslingen
4.Alexandria
5.Svante
6.Katana

Considerable more speed was needed with the bottom two in comparison to the top two that where almost effortless and did not move the bottles on the stand when doing so.

Tatami Targets:

I use Mugen Dachi tatami sourced from Karasu in Europe. I roll them up as tight as possible and let them soak for 24h before leaving them out to dry 20 min's prior to cutting.
It would be fair to note that tatami is not one of my regular targets, this is due to the fact its so expensive here in Europe, i have however cut tatami enough with all the swords present to rank them in terms of cutting performance, these results are based on single mats.


Ranking on Tatami cutting test:

1.Brescia
2.Esslingen
3.Katana
4.Alexandria
5.Svante
6.Cluny

Very close rankings between pairs, "Brescia vs Esslingen", "Katana vs Alexandria", "Svante vs Cluny". The swords in the pairs above easily beat out the pairs below them (example: both the Brescia and Esslingen will out perform the Katana and the Alexandria), but within individual pairs it all seems to boil down to weight, the Esslingen did not have enough compared to the Brescia which ended up costing it in blade presence, the Alexandria had to much compared to the Katana making for slow combos, and the Cluny just plain lacked weight giving advantage to the Svante.

Interesting Side Note: The Esslingen, Katana and Cluny share extremely similar weight's 114x grams. The Esslingen beats out the Katana thanks to acuteness (derived from being thinner). The Katana beats out the Cluny in blade presence, the later lacking enough of it on this target to be consistent outside of its COP.

All swords in this round up are capable of cutting Tatami cleanly given you have enough skill and practice to do so.

If Tatami is your primary target i would stay away from the Cluny and the Svante. All above them in the ranking will range from satisfactory to excellent performances.

I suspect rankings would be different against double and triple mats.

Newspaper Rolls:

This is the target that separates the men from the boys, things can go very wrong for your sword on this target, its harder and denser than Tatami so the risk of bending or breaking on a bad cut is present. Being denser it also requires a lot more force as well as speed to cut effectively, which i find very enjoyable as it forces you to cut closer to how you would in a real fight. (Swords that are good against Tatami require no force what so ever to cut and this is simply misleading as to how you would fight in a life or death situation...)

I have an endless stock of free newspaper so naturally this is my most regular target, the ones i use are made out of real paper instead of that disgusting "glossy" paper a lot of publicity seems to have these days. (don't use that crap to make newspaper rolls, not only is the consistency "mushy", but it oozes ink that will stain your sword once dry)

The rolls i use are 7.5cm's, 10cm's, 12cm's and 15cm's in diameter and 60 cm's in length. I prepare them as tightly as possible and soak them for 48h's , they should feel very dense and hard to the touch when squeezed with force, do not roll them up loosely or consistency will suffer from roll to roll and that makes testing blades against each other harder. Don't soak less than 48h's or they wont be wet enough in the center, this makes for very unpleasant cutting and dulls your swords FASTER.

Due to newspaper rolls being so dense, added stiffness in blades compared to previous targets is desirable!

Brescia: Its very unpleasant to cut newspaper rolls with the Brescia, it lacks stiffness making any cut above the COP exponentially harder and harder as you move away from it, it also punishes your hands with nasty vibrations. Despite these inconveniences, as long as your within the COP, it can cut all the way up to 12 cm's.

Cluny: As stated before the Cluny is useless outside its COP at cutting anything, within it, she can deal with 7.5cm rolls fairly easily, but lacks mass to go all the way to 10cm's. I know from testing when i first got it, that her upper limit (in my hands ) lies at 9 cm's.
No matter what your cutting whether its 7.5, 8 or 9cm rolls, you will need to put a lot of energy into cutting with her. Something to note is that the Cluny is more at home cutting hard dense newspaper rolls than tatami, this is no doubt because of its stiffness.

Katana: The Katana's performance on 7.5 and 10 cm rolls is truly a joy, no negative vibration can be felt even when cutting with the tip area. 12 cm rolls are its upper limit, possible but requires a lot of force to one shot with proper technique ( True time strikes ). Its weaknesses are lack of mass and excess thickness for this target, it would basically do better if it was longer, thinner, heavier. (then again it would not be the same sword)

Svante: Much like the Katana the Svante is overly thick for newspaper, which is good for stiffness, but bad for acuteness, its also a tad heavy to get up to good speed for this particular target. It performs much like the Katana, devouring 7.5 and 10 cm rolls with ease, and it starts to have trouble with the 12 cm rolls(can still do them however). It can cut outside the COP but not in the tip area like the Katana.

Esslingen: This sword is very surprising, its just stiff enough for newspaper (thanks to its fantastic temper) and obviously very thin, it takes down 7.5 and 10 cm rolls like they are not even there, 12 cm rolls with less effort than expected and can even, still maintaining proper technique take down a 15 cm rolls, although this seems very close to its limit. Its only real fault is lack of mass to make the cutting easier, so every cut starting at 12 needs effort.

Alexandria: Godly newspaper cutter, it has it all for this target, enough stiffness, mass and acuteness, this type of target as mentioned before is not easy, if the Brescia is considered the lightsaber of Tatami, then the Alexandria is the lightsaber of newspaper rolls, from 7.5 to 12 cm's no effort is needed (people who watch me laugh because it looks like i'm just dropping my arms) and at 15 cm's only moderate force is required, it cuts this way from COP to underneath its tip. Considering these are results outside the COP area, i'm pretty sure this sword can cut far thicker before it meets resistance.


Ranking on newspaper cutting test:

1.Alexandria
2.Esslingen
3.Katana
4.Svante
5.Brescia
6.Cluny

Between the Svante and Brescia it was a close call, it boils down to too thick vs not stiff enough, in pure results you notice they both can cut all the way to 12 cm rolls, and despite the Brescia actually cutting them with more ease, those vibrations are killer on the hands... comfort literally lost it for it.
As for the Alexandria, its a must have if you enjoy cutting newspaper rolls.

I will add that this type of target was the first to reveal weaknesses in a sword, and in this case its the Brescia, that i don't feel will survive extended sessions on this target, so i have since retired it from practice on newspaper rolls any bigger than 7.5 cm's and only cut with the COP area.

Interesting Side Note: Swords that perform well on newspaper rolls tend to be good vs flesh and bone. In reverse not all swords that perform bad on newspaper rolls are bad against flesh and bone . Read on

Time to dig in to the meat!

Pigs Flesh and Bone:

Remember how i said most reviews judged sword performance based off cutting water bottles? Well this is the target people should really be using to judge a swords performance: Pigs. (Not the blue kind with cuffs!)

The exact target in question is the whole pigs leg from the ham to the foot, pictures for clarity:





I buy my pigs freshly butchered and contained in vacuum suctioned bags, with only a partial amount of its blood drained. This makes the flesh more realistic as it is still a bit lubricated, how close to a living human is it? No idea.
Is it better than drained pig? Yes, the difference is night and day.

The pig is cut within 12h of buying it to avoid the bone hardening to much and the smell of the blood getting foul.
Pigs bone is the pigs body part least comparable to human, its much harder than human bone and this only gets worse after death, so if your sword can cut a pigs bone, it will logically with greater ease deal with a living human bone of the same size, if it can't cut the pigs bone this doesn't necessarily mean it would not cut human bone, but unfortunately i can't partake in those kinds of "tests" .

Pig is my second most used target for its very similar properties to human and its price: the cost of a pigs legs like the ones in the pictures above will set me back +-15 dollars.

This test target cannot be as precise for testing as newspaper rolls but i have cut pig enough to give a very clear account of a swords performance on it.

Cluny: We start directly with an interesting sword, when cutting into the ham ( the very fleshy area ), the sword can almost go all the way to the bone, being very thin profiled and thick the lack of mass and acuteness can be felt as you cut deeper into the flesh, slowing the blades advance, as with the previous test you need a lot of power and speed to cut with this sword, and as stated from the very start cutting performance with the Cluny is only achievable with its COP, any strike above it, even at high velocity wont cut into the flesh in any meaningful manner, if at all. Where i find the sword shines is in cutting hard targets, like the pigs foot, where flesh is very scarce, the Cluny can cut the bone two thirds deep and the rest is broken by momentum, the foot is not severed however but this remains an extremely incapacitating strike, probably deadly if performed on a skull. No edge damage was suffered.

Brescia: Flesh is no problem for this sword it goes threw it with ease with both the COP and the area above it. Bone like the foot area of the pig can be cut with the COP area, if you strike with the area above it you suffer the return of the infamous vibrations, "wob wob wob", it will cut however if enough force is applied but it will be terribly unpleasant. All in all as long as your within the COP area the Brescia can one shot the bare pigs ham with a good strike, and even softer strikes will have devastating effects on flesh, bone is the only thing holding it back, but keep in mind pig bone is harder than humans. The Brescia suffered edge damage on every cut that it met bone, additionally i believe the sword would take a set if used extensively outside the COP area against pigs bone.

Esslingen: The Esslingen is much like the Brescia in its performance so far and pig is no different, everything the Brescia can do the Esslingen can as well but it will require more power, as it lacks weight. Some added bonuses of the Esslingen over the Brescia is no edge damage, no vibrations against bone and it can cut with effectiveness closer to the tip. It was capable of one shooting the ham at its COP. It tends to perform better on flesh than bone. Its performance on bone is more pleasant than the Brescia's as the vibrations are not present, certainly due to being a stiffer sword. Most impressive little sword.








[Stay Tuned, Under Construction, Will Resume After Sleep]
[Enjoy and Comment]

[Lancelot Chan]

Thanks. Looking forward for more. Lukas MG is Chenessfan on SBG, right?

[Luka Borscak]

Very interesting, thanks for this!

[Jussi Ekholm]

Will be nice to see your opinions and results.

One thing I'd like to point out that I personally find Ronin Dojo Pro to be quite poor representation of production katana (in handling & performance). As you have 5 great longswords for it's comparison so I think the test will actually be how the 5 longswords compare to each other.

However that is something I really want to see. 5 high end longswords of varying profiles, it will be very interesting to see the results of your testing.

[Bryan Heff]

[Hector A.]

[Hector A.]

Thread updated!

Tatami + Newspaper Roll Sections added.

More tomorrow.

Enjoy.

[Luka Borscak]

Interesting results, but not unexpected, I would say. The harder and denser target is, warswords with more mass and stiffness show their worth. Can't wait for meat and bone test!

[Pieter B.]

[Luka Borscak]

[Pieter B.]

[Lukas MG]

Cool to see my sword in the test! I'm glad you're happy with its performance, Hector. Looking forward to the tests on meat and bone, something I've never cut with one of my blades. This is really helpful and I value your feedback.

[Jean Henri Chandler]

[Lukas MG]

Thanks Jean, done, I hope it's not against the rules seeing as I'm still in the process of joining the Industry professionals group.

Anyway, not to further derail this thread...

[Lukas MG]

Very interesting and good to hear that the Esslingen's edge has no trouble with bone. Would be nice to see some pics of the various swords' effect on the flesh and bone target... Looking forward to the Alexandria's performance, I would guess it'll be devastating here as well.

Have you done some cutting on flesh covered with linen (or other material)? I know you've cut linen covered newspaper but pig's flesh plus clothing is probably the closest we can get as far as realistic targets go.

[Lancelot Chan]

So your review has echoed mine on the Brescia's edge damage part on pig bone. Thanks so that I realize it isn't an isolated case on my end.

[Hector A.]

[Pieter B.]

What's your opinion on the Cluny? Does it penetrate cloth easily? Is it suitable for civilian wear in the frozen north?

[Hector A.]

[Lukas MG]

I have found really sharp edges make penetrating cloth a lot easier than just having a narrow tip... how sharp is your Cluny at the tip? Obviously the edge bevel will be really steep with such a narrow blade and incapable of effective cutting but I assume the edge is still highly polished and quite sharp?

Btw, when I write longer posts, I always do so in Word or a similar program, then copy/paste them in the forum. Might be a good idea for you as well