Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > scottish plate ? Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Alex Grimm




Location: washington
Joined: 08 Apr 2014

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun 16 Nov, 2014 5:14 am    Post subject: scottish plate ?         Reply with quote

so I don't usually post anything but I was invited by a friend to a little get together nothing official just an excuse to truly go all out and practice techniques and weapons for judicial duels. and while I was there we got on the subject of plate armor and someone mentioned Scottish plate. I have never really heard that the scotts had there own style of plate do any of you know of any examples of this. I would love to know of any links or pictures you guys have.
View user's profile Send private message
Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,098

PostPosted: Sun 16 Nov, 2014 6:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Depends where. All I see in the lowlands is emulation really. I have never seen much evidence for armour production in Scotland though I am still looking. The effigies I have seen from the Lowlands (not many around) show very similar to those in the south. If you get into the Isles/perhaps Highland and that area they have an interesting tradition of aketons and tall bascients, some seem to have armour on over the aketon.

I am not sure the Highlands and the Isles are identical and much of the evidence people use for highlands is not actually found in geographic areas of the Highlands so be careful. During and after Bruce's time there is a change in that some Lowland nobles acquire lands in the Highlands which may change things there as well. Very unlikely the lords and their retainers left their martial equipment in the lowlands. That said they likely would have been in a minority there.

I know of no strong studies in this topic really though which makes it rather tricky to be sure.

For years people said the Scot nobles were all poor as dirt on European standards But Dr. Campbell's work more or less disproves that, issue seem to simply be Scotland has a smaller population and therefore lower population to draw upon for war.

RPM
View user's profile Send private message
Alex Grimm




Location: washington
Joined: 08 Apr 2014

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun 16 Nov, 2014 6:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

that's all I really see as well the most I have seen is jack chains. I am interested because I am pondering the idea of a new suit and Scottish would be a little different.
View user's profile Send private message
Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,098

PostPosted: Sun 16 Nov, 2014 6:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am not sure about jack chains? Any images for those?

If you want different go as a man of the Isles.

RPM
View user's profile Send private message
Stephen Curtin




Location: Cork, Ireland
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Likes: 110 pages
Reading list: 18 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,158

PostPosted: Mon 17 Nov, 2014 4:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Randall Moffett wrote:
I am not sure the Highlands and the Isles are identical and much of the evidence people use for highlands is not actually found in geographic areas of the Highlands so be careful.


Good point Randall. I suspect that there were more regional differences (in terms of clothing, arms, and armour) among Gaelic peoples that we are aware of today. For example, Edmund Spenser mentions that wicker shields were in use in Ulster, but were not seen in the south of Ireland.

Éirinn go Brách
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Stephen Curtin




Location: Cork, Ireland
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Likes: 110 pages
Reading list: 18 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,158

PostPosted: Mon 17 Nov, 2014 4:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alex. If you want to go with Randall's idea and arm yourself as an Islesmen, you could still wear a suit of plate armour, as is depicted in a small number of grave slabs. The only distinctive part about these armours is that they have the typical tall, open faced bascinet, with a large triangular aventail/pisane, found on most other grave slabs from the Isles. Add a sword with down sloped guard, and your good to go.
Éirinn go Brách
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Alex Grimm




Location: washington
Joined: 08 Apr 2014

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Mon 17 Nov, 2014 7:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I had never thought about arming my self as a man of the isles. but I am still interested on a historical level. I wish I knew of a good website that depicts armor in tapestries and paintings. As far as I have seen the scotts didn't have a strong knightly culture like Europe did, and I think that's why we don't see a heavy use of plate armor.
View user's profile Send private message
Stephen Curtin




Location: Cork, Ireland
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Likes: 110 pages
Reading list: 18 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,158

PostPosted: Mon 17 Nov, 2014 10:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Alex Grimm wrote:
I had never thought about arming my self as a man of the isles.


Sorry Alex. My misunderstanding. I thought you were looking to acquire some armour with a distinctively Scottish look. After re-reading your original post I see that your just curious.

Alex Grimm wrote:
I wish I knew of a good website that depicts armor in tapestries and paintings.


Are you aware of the Effigies and Brasses, and Manuscripts Miniatures websites?

Éirinn go Brách
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Alex Grimm




Location: washington
Joined: 08 Apr 2014

Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue 18 Nov, 2014 1:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Are you aware of the Effigies and Brasses, and Manuscripts Miniatures websites?[/quote]

No I was not aware of them but after taking a look I am sure glad I am now. thakyou
View user's profile Send private message
Craig Peters




PostPosted: Tue 18 Nov, 2014 1:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
As far as I have seen the scotts didn't have a strong knightly culture like Europe did, and I think that's why we don't see a heavy use of plate armor.


The idea that the Scots did not have a strong knightly culture is not really true, at least of the lowlands. When David I ascended the Scottish throne in the 12th century, he had spent his youth growing up in the court of Henry I of England, and was thoroughly "Normanized" in his culture and outlook. Thus, Scotland became increasingly similar to other parts of Europe during David's reign, and his successors Malcolm IV and then William the Lion continued this process. By the time we get to the era of William Wallace, many of the lords and knights would have had very similar equipment to knights from England and the continent, and the culture they were a part of would have been fairly similar to other parts of Western Europe.
View user's profile Send private message
Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,098

PostPosted: Tue 18 Nov, 2014 5:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think Craig summarized that very well. David really promotes the growth of a pretty mainstream knightly class. In part by moving Normans to Scotland. My family for example is very likely to have some Norman blood to them. And of course as people in a elite class associate and intermarry their offspring have both Norman and scot characters they pick up. Ye4s this is largely in the Lowlands but the Lowlands really in many respects runs the show for much of the period. In the Highlands even you have the highest lords who associate with the other Lowlanders and as by the 14th some of these are from the Lowlands hard to imagine there was at least some development in the culture.

As I said before the issue is largely of a smaller knightly class over underdeveloped.

RPM
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > scottish plate ?
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum