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Jason Elrod
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 Posted: Thu 17 Apr, 2014 5:43 pm Post subject: Kelvingrove Messer? |
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Does anyone have any more information on the below sword/messer? Anything that you have would be great.
The pics were taken off of Andrea Carloni Flickr page and it seems to be listed as an arming sword. But it almost looks like a double sided arming sword mounted with a "messer style" hilt. I absolutely love it.
Better pics would be fantastic.
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Shahril Dzulkifli
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| Posted: Tue 22 Jul, 2014 7:17 pm Post subject: Kelvingrove Messer? |
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Information on the Kelvingrove Messer?
I'm afraid I don't have, Jason.
Anybody?
“You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength”
- Marcus Aurelius
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Luke Adams
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| Posted: Tue 22 Jul, 2014 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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I noticed, in the museum description, it was listed as a curved sword. To my knowledge, all knightly swords are single-handed and double-edged.
"God gives the nuts, but he does not crack them."
- German proverb
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Mark Lewis
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| Posted: Tue 22 Jul, 2014 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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I believe this caption refers to a different sword entirely... there is indeed an "arming sword" with a curved blade! See attached pic from Capwell's "The Real Fighting Stuff".
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Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin
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Michal Plezia
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Wed 23 Jul, 2014 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| Mark Lewis wrote: | | I believe this caption refers to a different sword entirely... there is indeed an "arming sword" with a curved blade! See attached pic from Capwell's "The Real Fighting Stuff". |
The blade on this one looks a bit like accidental warp during heat treating 
One of my blades ended with the similar curvature after quenching. 
www.elchon.com
Polish Guild of Knifemakers
The sword is a weapon for killing, the art of the sword is the art of killing. No matter what fancy words you use or what titles you put to
it that is the only truth.
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Mark Lewis
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| Posted: Wed 23 Jul, 2014 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| Michal Plezia wrote: | The blade on this one looks a bit like accidental warp during heat treating
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This seems like the most plausible explanation to me. In a way, this just makes me more curious about this sword's history. If the curve was regarded as an unacceptable manufacturing defect, presumably it would have been scrapped immediately, which clearly didn't happen... did this sword go into the "bargain bin"?
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Jeffrey Faulk
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| Posted: Wed 23 Jul, 2014 9:16 am Post subject: |
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"Sabering" is a definite flaw that does happen during heat-treat often enough. Historically if there was no time to re-do the treat, they'd just go ahead and use these blades as they would have been quite functional, just kind of weird shaped. It was that or scrap it, hammer it back into a lump of steel and start over entirely.
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Luke Adams
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| Posted: Wed 23 Jul, 2014 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if there are any redeeming factors in using a curved double-edged sword...
"God gives the nuts, but he does not crack them."
- German proverb
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Malcolm A
Location: Scotland, UK Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 89
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| Posted: Thu 24 Jul, 2014 1:31 am Post subject: |
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Jason,
I live on the Edinburgh side of Scotland which isn't that far from Glasgow and the Kelvingrove Museum.
The next time I go through I will try to get you better pictures of the grossemesser and its information plate.
With the Commonwealth Games having just started I won't be going that way for a while as the city will be mobbed.
Cheers,
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Jason Elrod
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| Posted: Thu 24 Jul, 2014 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| Malcolm A wrote: | Jason,
I live on the Edinburgh side of Scotland which isn't that far from Glasgow and the Kelvingrove Museum.
The next time I go through I will try to get you better pictures of the grossemesser and its information plate.
With the Commonwealth Games having just started I won't be going that way for a while as the city will be mobbed.
Cheers, |
Thank you Malcolm. I would appreciate any pictures that you can get of this piece.
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Mike Ruhala
Location: Stuart, Florida Joined: 24 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Thu 24 Jul, 2014 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Luke Adams wrote: | | I wonder if there are any redeeming factors in using a curved double-edged sword... |
While not as common as straight double edged swords there are curved examples from the Nordic lands, the latest evidence I've seen is from 14th century artwork and there are actual artifacts from centuries earlier. I wouldn't be surprised if there's quite a number of these tucked away in museums somewhere but generally overlooked because they do not match the common perception of what either Viking or knightly swords should look like.
As far as redeeming factors go the convex edge would present more cutting surface at an advantageous angle so it would offer at least a little benefit to the slice. Other than that any offensive or defensive saber technique that plays on the curve of the blade would be equally applicable to a curved fully double edge blade, it's a perfectly valid blade configuration.
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This is a standard topic