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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Dome riveted maille vs wedge riveted. Reply to topic
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S. Sebok





Joined: 13 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Oct, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well at least I got one piece of historical maille. I may pick up a GDFB maille hauberk wedge riveted with flat punched rings. The holes I read in that one thread Dan linked to said that maille is made using a drift rather than a punch and is flat on one side. That would solve my issue of it catching on my gambeson and cutting myself when I put it on. Now to find wedge riveted chausses, though my current ones are the ones that lace in the back and don't pull nearly as much as they're put on from the front and don't slide on.
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Oct, 2012 4:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Does any one sell links and rivets that are close to historic? From what I have seen I'd say no. Maybe Eric sells them? I'd be willing to make my own mail items but not my own links and rivets.... been there and done that. No thank you. My plan in the long run is Eric but in the mean time I have an indian one. As to it ripping up aketons.... why not use a sand blaster or something? There has to be something that can soften them up. Mine really is not that bad so not sure what every one is having an issue with.

RPM
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S. Sebok





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PostPosted: Wed 17 Oct, 2012 8:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I could try that but I'm additionally fed up with the fact half the rivets aren't solid, usually the maille fails at the rivet point and I'd say solid links are more structurally stronger than the riveted links. Guess I am just nit picking for accuracy again but then again it's all for practical reasons rather than accuracy. I am well aware indian made maille is nothing like the historical stuff, my main concern is whatever is lighter and doesn't scratch me up when I put it on. What I get for making an impulsive purchase back in 2010.
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Johan Gemvik




Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Oct, 2012 9:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I was thinking of buying one of those bags of GDFB 6mm roman maille with 50/50 riveted and solids and make my own rivets and see how accurate it can be made with that kit as a base.
The rings won't have the driifting though, not sure it'd work with a back inserted cone then. For solids I'd use my drop forged ones so they're rounded like on the Gjermundbu.

"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
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S. Sebok





Joined: 13 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct, 2012 7:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote


Heres how the inside of GDFB wedge riveted maille looks. Rather flat and more similar to the Erik Schmid stuff that I currently own. Not sure if I can find a pic of how the other side looks though I probably could ask around.

Heres how my Erik Schmid coif looks from both the inside and outside:

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Johan Gemvik




Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Oct, 2012 10:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

On the subject of what historically accurate maille looks like, here's what drop forged rouned solids look like (Viking Gjermundbu maille size and style).

Having concentrated on perfecting the solid ring making process primarily my riveted rings aren't as consistent quality as Eriks yet, hardly surprising as I don't make them for a living.











As for gdfb pre-made roman maille rings for riveting I've decided to try and see what I can make with those as a base but with my cone rivet system and my own solids. I'm ordering some bags of those after I get my next salary in a few days from now. Should be quite interesting.

"The Dwarf sees farther than the Giant when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on" -Coleridge
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S. Sebok





Joined: 13 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sat 06 Jul, 2013 12:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote


So this indian maille manufacturer by the name of www.romanhandicraft.com contacted me on both deviant art and facebook. He showed me this new type of maille they're developing which heres a pic of it. Quite frankly I have no clue how to react to this but it looks a LOT better than whats on the market now, the rings are somewhat ovoid shaped and the rivets are wedge riveted but with the round protruding head, they even got the overlap the right way. Needless to say he said he would send me more pics of what they are offering later on, they haven't got a hauberk of it yet but they do have samples. He kept saying it was similar in quality to Erik Schmid's stuff which from this one pic it does look rather nice, it's 16 gauge as well and not overly flat with the overlap and my only complaint is i'd prefer it with alternating flat punched rings to be period to the 13th century but other than that I actually like how this stuff looks.
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Burton Cutler




Location: New England
Joined: 30 Dec 2012

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Aug, 2013 10:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Was there any info on when this mail will be ready to purchase and who sells it ?
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S. Sebok





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PostPosted: Sun 04 Aug, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Erik Schmid messaged me about it, he said it was HIS maille that were samples he made for another company that they were selling off as their own maille. So there really is no maille thats being made by indian companies thats new. Thankfully he warned me before I made any purchase so sorry to bring disappointment but at least he said he's getting his maille made there eventually, though it will cost a bit.
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Burton Cutler




Location: New England
Joined: 30 Dec 2012

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun 04 Aug, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

OK I emailed Romanhandicraft and just received this reply

Quote:
Hello, yes we are making that new mail of 8mm and 9mm round ring wedge
riveted and flatring wedge riveted,more accurate historically,if you are
interested for buy this chainmail i will send you price List.still you
can check a sample picture which is being self production.we are only
one manufacturer in india making this new stuff. kindly check attachment
this sample was made 18 gauge wire. check the attachment.



 Attachment: 7.2 KB
GetAttachmentt.jpg



Last edited by Burton Cutler on Sun 04 Aug, 2013 7:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Burton Cutler




Location: New England
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PostPosted: Sun 04 Aug, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One other pic was sent


 Attachment: 10.44 KB
GetAttachment.jpg

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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

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PostPosted: Sun 04 Aug, 2013 8:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Burton Cutler wrote:
Hello, yes we are making that new mail of 8mm and 9mm round ring wedge riveted and flatring wedge riveted,more accurate historically

Not for Roman mail it isn't. Roman mail is round-sectioned, round riveted, and the inside diameter is typically closer to 5mm. Most Roman mail consists of alternating rows of riveted and solid links.
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S. Sebok





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PostPosted: Sun 04 Aug, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Hello Shawn,

I noticed your post on myArmoury about this new mail being made in India. Do not be fooled. The links he is showing were made quite some time ago with my tools for another company. His website also has pictures of SN Exports products. Be cautious.

Cheers,
Erik



Quote:

Hey Shawn,
Yes, that looks like it was made with my tools as well. Notice how you never see a completed garment made from those links? I've been working with a company over there for seven years trying to get them to make better mail. Unfortunately, my process is too labour intensive at the moment. This means that the finished products will be more expensive. We are working on getting things slimmed down, so as to be able to offer my quality at decent prices. I will be traveling there in the near future to finally get things going with this project. Apparently you need to show them in person so they understand what you're talking about. lol


Theres the messages he sent me via Facebook. Rather obvious really. I am just unsure of how he got the pictures because google turned up nothing. I also asked the Indian company to take pics of the OTHER side of the maille to no results. That explains why it looks almost exactly like Erik's maille pics I saw on this site, of his flat ring german maille, those are small samples he made for other companies.
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Antonio Ganarini




Location: Trentino, Italia
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Mon 05 Aug, 2013 1:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

S. Sebok wrote:
I know wedge riveted wasn't used till the late 13th early 14th centuries and only in Germany


I know this could be a bit out-of-topic, but do you have some reference for this info?

Because I'm trying as well to make a mail shirt using alternated rows of solid - wedge riveted rings (made by Ulfberht), for a 14th century/southern Germany kit...

Ciao a tutti!
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S. Sebok





Joined: 13 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Mon 05 Aug, 2013 3:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
1237 is the very earliest that wedge-riveted mail begins to appear - and only in Germany. You'd probably be ok if you went with round riveted mail. But it is really a moot point. Unless someone like Erik replicates the links for you they won't be even close to historical.

Dan Howard wrote about it in this thread http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=13424
So yes it would be period for the stuff you are doing and the alternating solid links would be as well, that only reall stopped being used later on when maille was made into a "secondary" defense rather than the primary, thus they didnt need the stronger solid links and stopped making them.
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Antonio Ganarini




Location: Trentino, Italia
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PostPosted: Tue 06 Aug, 2013 3:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you, really!!
I'll read that thread immediately!

Ciao a tutti!
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Stephen Law




Location: Edmond, Oklahoma
Joined: 04 May 2014

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PostPosted: Sun 04 May, 2014 7:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a photo of the Gjermundbu ring shirt. I took this at the Oslo History Museum in 2012. One can clearly see the solid rings.


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Stephen C. Law
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Eric S




Location: new orleans
Joined: 22 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Sun 04 May, 2014 11:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stephen Law wrote:
Here is a photo of the Gjermundbu ring shirt. I took this at the Oslo History Museum in 2012. One can clearly see the solid rings.

Stephen I can not see any details with the image you posted, I doubt if anyone else can either, do you have a higher resolution image?

Here is a close up image of Gjermundbu links, there are a lot more on my pinterest site.
Gjermundbu mail images. http://www.pinterest.com/search/my_pins/?q=Gjermundbu
European mail armor images. http://www.pinterest.com/samuraiantiques/european-mail-armor/



Last edited by Eric S on Mon 05 May, 2014 6:42 am; edited 2 times in total
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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PostPosted: Mon 05 May, 2014 1:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You can just make out the rivet on that link. On other exmples you can't see the rivets at all without an x-ray.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Eric S




Location: new orleans
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PostPosted: Mon 05 May, 2014 6:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
You can just make out the rivet on that link. On other exmples you can't see the rivets at all without an x-ray.
Dan your right, you have to look hard, I changed the wording and image.

According to Vegard Vike these are Gjermundbu solid punched rings (made from sheet metal) .
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