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Michal Spilka
Industry Professional
Location: Czech republic Joined: 06 Mar 2011
Posts: 89
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 Posted: Tue 04 Jun, 2013 12:05 pm Post subject: Ingerli sword - Solingen (??) |
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I took a photo of sword Ingerli in Solingenīs museum. Do you know proportions of this sword?
Itīs really nice piece, Iīd like to forge it but unfortunately Klingenmuseum doesnī t respond.
Thanks for your help!
www.nielo-sword.com
Michal Spilka
Nielo - Sword
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Robert Môc
Industry Professional
Location: Zvolen Slovakia Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 5:31 am Post subject: |
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A sword is in Geibig book in scale.
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 5:48 am Post subject: |
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Very interesting sword! Are there any signs that bronze decoration on the guard was covering more of a guard length before?
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Jeremy V. Krause
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| Posted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 8:36 am Post subject: |
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What a strange but interesting looking sword.
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Ian Hutchison
Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 626
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| Posted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| Luka Borscak wrote: | | Very interesting sword! Are there any signs that bronze decoration on the guard was covering more of a guard length before? |
Luka, do you see the horizontal striations on the guard? I'm no craftsmen but I have noticed on others arms projects, and on jewelry, that similar looking channels are cut to allow the two metals to grip. So, to my uninformed eye, it looks possible that the guard was clad across the whole length.
'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Ian Hutchison wrote: | | Luka Borscak wrote: | | Very interesting sword! Are there any signs that bronze decoration on the guard was covering more of a guard length before? |
Luka, do you see the horizontal striations on the guard? I'm no craftsmen but I have noticed on others arms projects, and on jewelry, that similar looking channels are cut to allow the two metals to grip. So, to my uninformed eye, it looks possible that the guard was clad across the whole length. |
Yes, I see and I know viking age hilts were usually cut with many fine grooves into which precious metals were hammered, but I was not sure is this the same case because the remains of the bronze plating look rather thick.
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Ian Hutchison
Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 626
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| Posted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Luka Borscak wrote: | | Ian Hutchison wrote: | | Luka Borscak wrote: | | Very interesting sword! Are there any signs that bronze decoration on the guard was covering more of a guard length before? |
Luka, do you see the horizontal striations on the guard? I'm no craftsmen but I have noticed on others arms projects, and on jewelry, that similar looking channels are cut to allow the two metals to grip. So, to my uninformed eye, it looks possible that the guard was clad across the whole length. |
Yes, I see and I know viking age hilts were usually cut with many fine grooves into which precious metals were hammered, but I was not sure is this the same case because the remains of the bronze plating look rather thick. |
Yeah, it does look a little thick. At the same time I think it would look very natural to have the plating across the guard.
By the way, that is a really well shaped canoe style guard.
'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Tim Lison
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| Posted: Wed 05 Jun, 2013 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a pic for you. Couldn't find dimensions but thought this might help...
 Attachment: 47.24 KB
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Nils Anderssen
Location: Drammen, Norway Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 61
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| Posted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 6:02 am Post subject: |
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The last picture is taken from Alfred Geibig's book "Entwicklung des Schwertes im Mittelalter" and they are made to scale. The whole sword is 1:5 and the rest is 1:2. You just got to love those Germans...
The width of the crossguard is 57,8 mm in the book, so about 115,6 in real life 
You can then scale the picture acordingly and you will get the rest of the measurements.
I would like to note that the picture of the sword is probably distorted by the camera lense so it is probably not acurate, but should give you an general idea...
When looking at the picture of the sword i almost expected the grip to be longer, but it turned out to be a fairly short bladet vikingsword.
If you do not own that book I can higly recomend it. It has pictures of about 164 swords all done in scale.
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 6:23 am Post subject: |
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This is a sword I have looked at several times during my visits to the Klingenmuseum. I have not documented it yet but I hope to do so some time.
My impression is that the decoration on the guard is all there originally was. The lines are simply strands in the structure of the iron.
It is a rather short and small sword. Very beautiful. With the gold applications it give a feel of being a relic of some kind. It has a serene presence.
I have not held it, but I expect that it feels light in the hand. A short and handy sword. The hilt is "normal" size, but the blade is shorter than the norm.
Hope these impressions help.
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Daniel Wallace
Location: Pennsylvania USA Joined: 07 Aug 2011
Posts: 580
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| Posted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| Peter Johnsson wrote: |
My impression is that the decoration on the guard is all there originally was. The lines are simply strands in the structure of the iron.
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in looking at the sword all together, the strands on the iron look to be congruent with the weathering on the rest of the sword. if these were some kind of inlay channels i would think they would be much deeper in the guard and have worn way a lot more of the guard over time. in my own experience with inlaying materials, you make the channels about 1/3 as deep as the material your inlaying, even with small gage wire the cut channel will be quite deep.
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Michal Spilka
Industry Professional
Location: Czech republic Joined: 06 Mar 2011
Posts: 89
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| Posted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Thank you guys for your help!
Picture with scales thatīs exactly what I wanted. Super!
Itīs really interesting sword, I couldnīt take my eyes off! Beautiful Frankish work.Gold-plated ornament. I think itīs not decorated on other parts. The inscription is well seen on this pic (despite reflection) http://www.nielo-sword.com/foto/in/ . I saw it on another sword too.
Do you know the meaning of INGERLI (ingerlii) inscription?
Michal Spilka
Nielo - Sword
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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It's actually INGELRI, not INGERLI. It is thought that it is a name.
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Richard Hare
Location: Alberta, canada Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 135
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| Posted: Sat 08 Mar, 2014 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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The horizontal striations in the guard are quite usual in objects made of wrought iron.
Similar striations can often be seen even in 18th and 18th century gun & sword fittings. With age these lines become apparent, but need not show when the piece is new.
I don't think the guard on this sword was covered with decoration like the remaining pieces.
For a start I thought maybe covered with a different metal ie, silver, but see none of the tell-tale scoring /koftgari type lines usually present when a layer of precious metal is applied.
Possibly blued finish, with contrasting bronze areas?
Just a guess of course!
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Shahril Dzulkifli
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| Posted: Mon 10 Mar, 2014 6:36 am Post subject: Ingelri sword - Solingen (??) |
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It will be a good idea if the Ingelri sword is reproduced.
You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength
- Marcus Aurelius
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This is a standard topic