Fascinating swords from the Hermitage -- myArmoury.com

Russ Ellis · Industry Professional

I found these over at bladeforums.com one of the guys there recently made a visit to the Hermitage in St. Petersburg and came back with these pictures.

Both of these swords appear to be rapiers with pistols built into them. Also note that one appears to have a flamberge type blade and also note the interesting enameled (at least that's what it looks like) cinquedas in the pictures. I thought the cinqueda was pretty much an exclusively Italian sword but...

Jack McGregor Lynn · Posted: Mon 13 Dec, 2004 3:32 pm Post subject:

That's interesting... I wonder what the pistol might to to the balance of the blade?

Russ Ellis · Industry Professional

I wondered the same thing. I wonder if these were actually usable or if they were more along the lines of curiousities like the ones with the watches in the pommel that Nathan posted earlier.

Gordon Frye · Posted: Tue 14 Dec, 2004 9:07 am Post subject:

Russ Ellis · Industry Professional

The other thought that occurs to me is what sort of fight would it be used in? On the battlefield? No, a rapier like this would not have been part of military dress (or so I've been lead to believe). In a duel? No, I suspect shooting your opponent in a sword duel would be considered rather bad form and get you executed for murder. Hunting? No, this is a rapier not a hunting hanger. On the street? Well maybe.... surprising a gang of street toughs by shooting one of their number when you draw your sword might be something... but as you say a pistol would be a heck of a lot more effective in that regard. Like you said I think what we have here is a period rambo death dagger...

Brian M · Posted: Tue 14 Dec, 2004 10:34 am Post subject:

It doesn't surprise me at all to see a cinqueda-type weapon. Peter the Great (Czar 1682-1725) made a massive attempt to "europeanize" Russia during his rule. Aside from the technical and social advances it brought to Russia, it also resulted in an often slavish imitation of western fashions, and I imagine that applies to the weapons of the period as well.
Now it's be very interesting to see some native designs prior to that.

Brian M

Ruel A. Macaraeg · Posted: Thu 16 Dec, 2004 4:53 am Post subject:

Russ Ellis · Industry Professional

Wow so rather then an impressive example of enamelling it's an impressive example of inlay. Not very tasteful by today's standards but impressive nonetheless. Gollnick has promised to post other pictures he took at the hermitage and if he does so I'll be sure to post them here as well.

Ruel A. Macaraeg · Posted: Thu 16 Dec, 2004 6:22 am Post subject:

Russ Ellis · Industry Professional

Yeah I think someone else mentioned that they were Italian too probably brought in as part of Peter the Great's attempts to Europeanize Russia in all matters including fashion. Don't know if that's true or not (could be just don't know) but the consensus is definitely that these are Italian swords.

Not to worry Ruel if you are all about that sort of decoration you are probably being more historically accurate then most of us. Our ancestors would have doubtless been appalled at our simple tastes since ostentation seems to have been the very definition of what made good taste in the past.

Gordon Frye · Posted: Thu 16 Dec, 2004 8:28 am Post subject:

Jack McGregor Lynn · Posted: Thu 16 Dec, 2004 6:37 pm Post subject:

I mentioned earlier that I wondered what the pistol did to the balance of the sword. Now I want to look at it from the other end. How did the sword affect the funtion of the pistol? Probably not for the better but I think before we write it off as a simple novelity we should consider the possibility that the sword was meant as a backup for the pistol. I assume it's a single shot with the pistol so having a blade, even a badly balanced one, might have been nice in a dangerous situation.

That said I actually do agree with you guys that this is probably a novelty. I would cite as evidence for this that such gun-swords are rare. I've heard of others but it never seemed to me that they would serve any funtion better than simply a seperate gun and sword would. I think that if the combination offered a great tactical advantage we'd find more swords with guns attached.

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Thu 16 Dec, 2004 7:19 pm Post subject:

I would assume that having the pistol barrel pointing at you would sort of put one off balance mentally as even a superior swordsman might hesitate as to what kind of attack to use. That slight hesitation might give an extra reaction time advantage to the one using the combination weapon: This might be enough to affect the outcome even if the handgun was not fired or unloaded! (As long as the opponent couldn't be sure if it was loaded or not.)

It might be possible to design one of these so that the balance of the sword would not be so bad as to become a liability if it was designed from the ground up and not just an add-on to a normally balanced sword.

I guess if would be more informative if an experienced sword handler at least got a chance to handle one.

Bottom line I agree that it must have had a "COOLNESS" gimmick appeal.

An Axe/Wheelock or Spear/Wheelock might be more usable at least as a special weapon for a bodyguard.

If we advance to the 18th century a Flintlock/Boxlock small sword combination might be practical as the lock might be more reliable, less fragile and could be small and compact, also a short barrel/reasonnably large caliber could be made without excessive weight or bulk.