[Jon K.]

I am very new to collecting, and I am far from being a history buff. I really want to collect functional weapons from a variety of cultures that possess some degree of historical accuracy. I want something that someone from the era the weapon was from could have recognized and appreciated. Since I am new collecting I can't justify financially, cutting out the guesswork and jumping to the top of the order and getting an Albion or A & A. Not just yet.

So I understand Windlass or MRL make for poor choices for Roman period weapons and armor. Say it ain't so!

I am looking at the on KoA:
http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=888006

I know it was made for a movie, and that's always a bad sign I think it got massacred for historical accuracy on another forum reviews. The price and design are so attractive that I find myself wanting to press my luck, here. Is there anything that could make this remotely historically possible? Please forgive my ignorance, but I have to ask. A similar sword design was featured in some period artwork. I think I saw similar scabbard fittings in an excavated piece. (I understand there us a strong possibility I don't have a bleeping clue of what I'm looking at when I say "similar").

I have a feeling about what everyone's answer is. So why ask? Well, I'm not sure how far I can get with collecting if I can't really afford to get what I want at the price I want to pay. What do I want? A strong balance of functionality, intriguing design, historical accuracy, at a price I can justify to my wife. Lol

[Bartek Strojek]

Well, I'm not really very knowledgeable -

but to my eye, blade is something that could certainly pass as somehow early 'hispanic' type of Roman sword. Or straight out Iberian blade. I can only see overall profile at the Internet, of course...

Hilt is obviously 100% fantasy, looks like something 19th century enthusiast could put on a ancient blade, perhaps.

If that's what you're asking about.

[Mark Moore]

First off....Don't beat yourself up for being a 'newb' to collecting. We all were at some point. The sword you are looking at is a good one to my eye. Solid construction, peened pommel, nice scabbard, modest price. Windlass and CAS/Hanwei are both good entry level sword makers, and Kult of Athena sells them all at the best prices I've seen. They are a great bunch of folks to deal with. But...........BE WARNED.......Sword collecting is more addictive than crystal meth!!! I say, if that's the sword you feel is calling your name....get it. ..............McM

[Mark Moore]

Forgot to say........There's been more lost to history than has ever been found. What we, as collectors, deem as 'historically accurate' is only based on period artwork, surviving museum pieces, and speculation. Could this sword have been a reality in the past? Sure it could have been. We're still looking for the Ark of the Covenant, are we not? We've still not found a bone from a giant flying reptile that the ancients called a 'dragon'. Could they be out there? Sure they could. Getting too serious in this field will lead to a certain degree of insanity. Collect what you like---history be damned---and enjoy. ...McM

[William Swiger]

I have been collecting mostly historical swords for years with a few fantasy mixed in and that sword has been on my list for awile. Waiting for it to show up on the MRL DoTD.

[Radovan Geist]

This is not my principal era of interest, but I´d say that if you were looking for "A strong balance of functionality, intriguing design, historical accuracy, at a price I can justify to my wife", then this particular piece fails on "accuracy" and maybe "functionality" (just my personal feeling, I haven´t handled it). I cant say about other two factors, as they´re very much subjective:)

Just a side note on "accuracy" - of course we could base our judgements only on what we know about Roman weapons now. You cannot rule out the possibility that things were very much different and they will be unveiled by new discoveries (or never). We can go this way, and many of us (including myself) love to do it, because it´s fun and exciting, but it´s definitely more "fantasy" than "history".

However, if you are into fantasy or movie weapons, you might go for this. It looks fun:)

[Matthew Amt]

Ave! Welcome to The Hobby, and kiss your money good-bye.

I can only address things from the historical point of view.

Rule #1: Everything in the movies is WRONG. Once in a while something vaguely historical might slip through, but try not to let that spoil your enjoyment of the film.

Next, or maybe first, "history" or "historically accurate" means what we KNOW, from archeology, pictoral evidence, or literary references. It's tricky, and frought with dangers, but it does not include "possible". Once you get really good at this, and have a solid background in a particular culture and those around it, you can start to fill in gaps very tentatively. When new evidence turns up, we can change our idea of history. Happens all the time. And after you've seen a few thousand reproductions, certain features start to pop out at you right away.

And to answer your first question in the simplest way, right, nothing from MRL/Windlass is worth spending your money on if you want something Greek or Roman that is reasonably accurate.

For this particular sword, it's a movie prop. If that turns you on, enjoy! But IF you want something that is reasonably historically accurate (which is as close as you're going to get with anything off-the-shelf), this isn't it. I will say that it's initial appearance is closer than a lot of movie stuff I've seen, and closer than a lot of MRL's stuff! But lemme run through a few details.

The hilt does indeed resemble some seen in artwork, but those are parazonium hilts, not from a gladius. The parazonium is an aristocratic officer's traditional weapon, so it would have been carried by tribunes and legates, not centurions or below. And we don't know as much about it as we'd like, so things like blade shape are still questionable or debated. Probably the hilt was ivory--I don't think any solid metal ones have been found (as legitimate archeological finds--you can find a ton of fakes on ebay!). The eagle head itself looks very American to me, not really Roman, and certainly the way the feathers are done is not Roman.

The blade shape is probably not right for a parazonium. It is a typical Indian-made gladius shape, sort of Mainz mixed with hispaniensis but not quite being either. As I understand it, both of those would have been long out of use by the timeframe of the movie.

Those scabbard parts show up on any number of cheap zinc SLOs (sword-like objects). The sad thing is that the motifs are actually not bad! But they are often cast zinc rather than stamped or embossed brass. Not sure I've ever seen anything quite like that wreathy thing in the middle, though. The suspension loops are wrong, and possibly not strong enough to actually wear the sword for very long.

The "antiqued" look isn't as pronounced on this as it is on some pieces, but it's still baffling. Every piece of officer's equipment--from everything we know about the Romans--would have been silvered, gilded, and polished to shine like crazy. Most of the grunt stuff, too, really (though more tinning and less gold!).

That's what I'm seeing off the top of my head! Bottom line, is it "historically possible"? Well, so are swim fins and tutus! As soon as you start saying "But they COULD have...", you're slipping into fantasy. That's what the movies do. It ain't history. Keep the history and the fantasy firmly separated in your mind, and the whole collecting world will be a much easier place to play. In my mind, never the twain shall meet.

But like I said, if you like the piece, get it! I wouldn't *quite* say "History be damned," I just don't want people to be disappointed when they think they're buying something which they might think is historical, though it isn't.

Have fun!

Matthew

[Bjorn Hagstrom]

But what would be the best compromise to get? A not super-expensive, but still reasonably historical roman sword for our Original Poster?

I thing DelTin is a good start, they have roman swords at KoA that will run just shy of 400 USD
That might seem a bit stiff, compared to a Windlass but then you get something that you might actually stay fond of. Whereas if you are indeed hit by the collection bug, you will very soon grow out of the Windlass and want a better piece anyway.

Check out some here:
http://www.kultofathena.com/roman.asp

[Phil D.]

I think that it would work for you as an example of Late Roman Army.... Here is a detail of the Tetrarchs in Venice and description with similar swords.While the construction maybe different the theme is definitely there.

"The Tetrarchs: The emperor Diocletian and his three imperial colleagues. To the left, Diocletian and Maximianus, the two Augusti (co-emperors); to the right, Galerius and Constantius Chlorus, the two Caesars (deputy emperors). Note the woollen "Pannonian" caps commonly worn (out of combat) by officers in the late army as a result of the pervasive influence of the Danubian officer class; and the sword grips with eagle-head pommels. Porphyry statue on the Basilica di San Marco, Venice"

[J. Hargis]

Jon K.:

The Roman period is new to me as well, I too am moving cautiously.
See link below for a discussion of Valiant Armoury's The Praetorian, etc. I have one on order and will give my opinions upon receipt, which should be very soon per email from VA. It's currently on sale for $280.00 (sharp or not, with shown scabbard) and VA does have a rep. for solid work. A bit more expensive than the movie piece you are considering, but IMO easily worth it.

Regards, Jon H.
discussion: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=27835
VA: http://www.customswordshoppe.com/shoppe/produ...3ea78327u7


[edited for links corrections]

[Phil D.]

By the way,I just realized that the KoA description of the sword states, " All parts are highly detailed and meticulously hand finished in solid metal".

You should contact MRL directly to verify that the hilt and scabbard details are brass and not a cheap zinc alloy.

[Christopher Gregg]

I've got all three "Celtic" weapons of this series - I'm afraid the hilts are all "brass" finished mystery metal (zinc?). The steel blades are all properly tempered, and peened to the hilt, though. Scabbards aren't too bad for the price point. I'd bet the Roman weapons are the same.

[Matthew Amt]

[Jon K.]

[Jon K.]

[Jon K.]

[Jon K.]

[J. Hargis]

Jon K.:

[Jon K.]

[Matthew Amt]