Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Flat faced bascinets Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Jonathan Blair




Location: Hanover, PA
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Likes: 9 pages
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 496

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 12:22 pm    Post subject: Flat faced bascinets         Reply with quote

I was picking through Best Armour's website (www.bestarmour.com) and found what could only be called flat faced bascinets. Compared to the houndskull (pig faced) bascinet with its pronounced snout visor, the visors on these flat faced bascinets are... well flat. My question is how often historically do you see these flat faced bascinets? During what time periods do they show up and what regions of Europe?

Picture is from Best Armour's website.



 Attachment: 35.61 KB
bascinet_19d.jpg


"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." - The Lord Jesus Christ, from The Gospel According to Saint Matthew, chapter x, verse 34, Authorized Version of 1611
View user's profile Send private message
Augusto Boer Bront
Industry Professional



Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy
Joined: 12 Nov 2009

Posts: 294

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Flat faced bascinets have been an obsession of mine for quite some time.
There are sometimes depictions of them through all the XIVth century.
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/la-chanson-de...pson/1293/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/histoire-univ...-c-2/5720/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/holkham-bible...47682/164/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/romance-of-al...ey-264/44/
http://armourinart.com/48/57/

Armourer-Artist-Blacksmith
www.magisterarmorum.com

Pinterest albums to almost all existing XIVth century armour.

Pinterest albums on almost all existing XVth century Italian armour.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Reece Nelson




Location: Overland Park KS
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 2:28 pm    Post subject: "flat faces bascinets"         Reply with quote

Here is an original. Many people think this it's from the early 15th century and was an Italian export.

-Reece



 Attachment: 35.82 KB
IMG_5768.JPG


 Attachment: 49.75 KB
IMG_5769.JPG


 Attachment: 103.33 KB
IMG_2971.JPG
Here is some early 15th century artwork that depicts 2 "flat faced" visors
View user's profile Send private message
Matthew P. Adams




Location: Cape Cod, MA
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Likes: 8 pages

Posts: 462

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun, 2013 9:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That last one also shows both posta di Donna and posta Donna soprano, any more information about it?
"We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training" Archilochus, Greek Soldier, Poet, c. 650 BC
View user's profile Send private message
Len Parker





Joined: 15 Apr 2011

Posts: 484

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun, 2013 7:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Galahad's helmet on the ground has a flattened look.

[edit] I should say somewhat flattened look.
View user's profile Send private message
Bryan Heff




Location: Philadelphia
Joined: 04 Mar 2012
Likes: 8 pages

Posts: 370

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun, 2013 3:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Len Parker wrote:
Galahad's helmet on the ground has a flattened look.

[edit] I should say somewhat flattened look.


I have a question. The soldiers in the background, the helmets (bascinets?) they are wearing...are they basically all wearing helmets that are capable of having a visor attached, but are just not wearing them at the moment? But Galahad's has the visor, same basic helmet styles but with visor completely removed, or 2 different helmet styles.

I guess I am asking in a long winded fashion, do these bascinets convert back and forth from visored versions and non?
View user's profile Send private message
Augusto Boer Bront
Industry Professional



Location: Cividale del Friuli (UD) Italy
Joined: 12 Nov 2009

Posts: 294

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nearly every bascinet we have has a detachable visor. Look it for yourself https://plus.google.com/photos/115962623729091930300/albums/5433287750914154321?banner=pwa
Maybe depending on situation the warrior could choose to wear it with the visor or without wearing a great helm on the bascinet.

Armourer-Artist-Blacksmith
www.magisterarmorum.com

Pinterest albums to almost all existing XIVth century armour.

Pinterest albums on almost all existing XVth century Italian armour.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Iagoba Ferreira





Joined: 15 Sep 2008

Posts: 192

PostPosted: Sat 08 Jun, 2013 2:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

1340 mural paintings of Artajona, now in the Museo de Navarra, Pamplona. And the bascinet is not the only interesting item he wears... Wink

View user's profile Send private message
Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,121

PostPosted: Sat 08 Jun, 2013 5:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Take a look at the Holkham and Taymouth Hours. Both have these and some even more developed ones!

Holkham
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons..._Bible.jpg

Taymouth
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/the-taymouth-...n-13/3820/

One I have heat I want to make this helmet
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/the-taymouth-...n-13/3807/

My guess is that by the 1320s and especially by the 1330s you start seeing these. I think just in the Yates Thomspon 13, Taymouth Hours you are actually seeing a number of visors in use on bascinets.


RPM
View user's profile Send private message
Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,121

PostPosted: Sat 08 Jun, 2013 9:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Others from 1300-1325.

http://manuscriptminiatures.com/roman-dalexan...-791/2435/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/grandes-chron...2615/2370/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/fleur-des-his...on-f/2275/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/bible-histori...-160/2522/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/book-of-hours...-231/1882/
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/estoire-del-s...raal/7081/

RPM
View user's profile Send private message
Boris R.





Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 143

PostPosted: Sun 09 Jun, 2013 4:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That not one single specimen of this kind of bascinet survives to this day just make me very sad Sad
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
View user's profile Send private message
Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,121

PostPosted: Sun 09 Jun, 2013 4:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Boris,

Seeing how little armour predates 1450 in total I do not think we should be too surprised. It is sad though. I figure they had a ling life and were likely reused an awful lot, so who knows maybe bits of them are about.

RPM
View user's profile Send private message
Boris R.





Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 143

PostPosted: Sun 09 Jun, 2013 5:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Randall,

what do you take of the barbuta-like bascinet with visor posted earlier in this topic?
Are the hinges for visor original or are they some Victorian age addition?
As I gather, recently the visor and the helmet are not displayed together but separated.

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
View user's profile Send private message
Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,121

PostPosted: Sun 09 Jun, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Boris,

Most people do assume they are not supposed to be together. After having restored original armour and arms I have no doubt Victorians and their fellow Europeans of that time would do something like that. To be fair we have some shady people who'd do it today if they had the chance.

We see so little evidence for hinges on visors in art it is hard to say. All I can say is I like to be able to remove the visor for varied use and cleaning. But we know some helmets like sallets often had solid riveted visors so hard to say if they started with them or gained them later.

RPM
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Flat faced bascinets
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum